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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:32:45 +0100
From: Marian Gunkel
Subject: [Paddlewise] Folding Boat history (was: Re: Granta Folding boats)

Ralph Diaz wrote:

> Britain had a meaningful folding kayak industry prior to WW II. These
> boats were used by the Special Boat Service clandestine operators in
> various missions against the Germans and the Japanese.

According to the book "SBS the Inside Story of the Special Boat Service",
they used production line boats only for the first few missions, then
quickly had some special semi-rigid boats custom-made. For the
"cockleshell-hero-mission", they already used very heavy boats, which I
would not call folding kayaks anymore.
I haven't got that book around so I can't be more precise (I read a library
copy when I was in Britain). For those with a military interest, have a
look, for everybody else it is not worth it.

> The Germans for some reason did not want to export Kleppers to the British
> during the war and so local folding kayaks were used.

Quite right. Most, if not all German folding kayak companies had to shut
down their kayak production in order to produce "war important goods"
(direct translation). This happened even before WWII broke out, Klepper
seems to have been producing *some* kayaks until 1941 (I'll have to look
that one up, too). So, there wasn't much to export.
Another note: quite soon after the Nazis took over, several Jewish owned
folding kayak companies had to be sold, for a ridiculous small price. A
group of some "Amateur researchers" has just started to find out more about
the organized water sport movements in the 20s and 30s, how everything was
brought to an abrupt end in 1933 and how Nazis influenced the sport
organizations after 1945.

> Kissner ... was eccentric but then, again, most of us folding kayakers
> are. You havta be with our boats!

Well put, Ralph. I like to be eccentric (but that was a very minor reason to
get into foldables).

Matt Broze:
> Alan Byde says in ASKC#64 Nov 87 (Anglesey Sea Kayak Club Newsletter

Advanced Sea Kayaking Club - lead by John Ramwell, a British paddler legend.
Now it's called International Sea Kayaking Association.

Marian

Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany




From: "Matt Broze"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats & Need kayak
  identification
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:57:14 -0800

Ralph [C. Hoehn]wrote:

> In fact paddling on the whole only survived because of the emergence of
> cheaper plastic kayaks. This in turn has allowed a modern renaissance of
> folding boats (which the other Ralph has been documenting for the last
> decade of its growth on this continent).

Is this the general consensus out there?
I've been around this business since before "cheaper plastic" sea kayaks
(and before sea kayak retail stores existed outside the NW corner of the
US--and SW corner of Canada) and sea kayaking (much less paddling) never
seemed in danger of not surviving to me and in fact was rapidly gaining in
popularity even before plastic came on the scene. Sea kayaking stores had
started popping up around the coastal and Great Lakes areas of the country
by the time the first plastic sea kayak was introduced in 1984 (the
Aquaterra Chinook). Aquaterra/Perception certainly signed up a lot of new
dealers, sporting goods, and hardware stores across the country with the
introduction of the cheap plastic Chinook and later models but I think all
the major folding kayak companies were already in existence before then and
Feathercraft never seemed to be doing anything but expanding as long as I
can remember them (since about 1982). I wonder if Folbot would give us a
sales history from well before 1984 to as recently as they would be willing
to. I think I recall Folbot ads in Canoe magazine since the mid 70's and in
magazines like Popular Mechanics since the 50's. Those sales figures might
be interesting, to see if the popularity growth of plastic kayaks correlated
well with their sales history or did it more closely follow the popularity
of sea kayaking in general, or maybe some other reasons yet to be postulated
will correlate better still. Our company never felt in danger of sea
kayaking not surviving, quite the opposite, the popularity brought much more
competition into the field and for us this certainly began before plastic
sea kayaks were introduced and became widespread. Since Canoeing is also
"paddling" I don't think those companies were saved from extinction by
plastic kayaks either. Sea Kayaking's popularity has probably come partly at
Canoeing's expense.

Marion,
Yes, ASKC was my abbreviation for Advanced Sea Kayaking Club but my memory
inserted Anglesey as my best guess at the time without looking it up (which
is why I added the "I think" after it). I kept the data and sources of it in
abbreviated form because pre 2000 versions of MS Excel had "I think" a 256
unit limit in each cell and I had to abbreviate a lot to get some data to
fit. I even checked my source publications abbreviations list at the top of
the spreadsheet but alas I hadn't listed ASKC among them and had therefore
had to wing it (or work too hard in order to check it). I apologize for the
blunder.

I'll bet the kayak Wayne Smith wanted to know about with the "wings" behind
the cockpit and the groove down the middle is an older model Downriver
Racing Kayak. If so, it will be about 14' 9" (4.5 meters) long and about
24.5" (62cm) wide at the wingtips. Prijon (of Germany) is probably the
largest builder of that type of kayak so if forced to guess I'd go with the
best odds. I seem to remember a DR boat with a groove down the middle too,
?maybe a Phoenix Mach II?--nope, that was built in the USA and would
probably be older than 14 and with clear fabric. Hope the paddler of it had
big float bags in it. Some paddlers have used DR boats as sea kayaks in a
pinch but I wouldn't recommend it. Not only were the ones I tried quite
tippy but they weathercocked horribly in side winds (even empty) and don't
come with rudders.

Matt Broze



Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:31:39
From: Wes Boyd
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats & Need kayak 
         identification

At 10:57 PM 2/8/01 -0800, Matt Broze wrote:

> Ralph [C. Hoehn] wrote:
>> In fact paddling on the whole only survived because of the emergence of
>> cheaper plastic kayaks. This in turn has allowed a modern renaissance of
>> folding boats (which the other Ralph has been documenting for the last
>> decade of its growth on this continent).
>
> Is this the general consensus out there?
>
> (big snip)
>
> "paddling" I don't think those companies were saved from extinction by
> plastic kayaks either. Sea Kayaking's popularity has probably come partly
> at Canoeing's expense.

If you change the word "paddling" in Ralph's statement to "kayaking", then
he's probably right. The plastic 'yak virtually started a whole new ball
game out there. 

But Matt is right, too -- kayaks have taken a big bite out of the canoe
market, especially for solo users. But the canoe makers aren't hurting much
from it -- there are still a lot being built. The advent of plastics did
revolutionize that industry -- say, twenty or thirty years ago, the
aluminum canoe was king of the heap. Now, they're something like five
percent of the market.

-- Wes




From: [Ralph C. Hoehn]
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:53:07 EST
Subject: [Paddlewise] Folding boats

I'm very glad that my hasty comments on the developments of folding and rigid
kayaks prompted Matt Broze and Ralph Diaz to take serious issue. Thanks, guys!!

I do maintain, from a European perspective, that the increased popularity of
cheap outboard motors in the sixties reduced the customer base for folding 
kayaks / boats, which did not recover and begin to thrive again until the 
advent of kayaks sold at entry level pricing. To wit Klepper's attempts to
partake of the motorboat and sailing dhingy market to stem the flow. When I
was a kid in Germany in the late sixties and early seventies, Kleppers were
well known, of course (as was Pouch, incidentally), but considered "relatively"
exotic compared to what the situation had been when my father lived with them 
10, 15 and 20 years earlier.

:-)

Times have changed for the better!!

Ralph C. Hoehn




From: "ralph diaz"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folding boats
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:32:32 -0500

That's an entirely different issue.  There is no question that the advent of
cheap accessible motorized boats greatly affected paddlesports in general.
Not just on the other side of the pond from North America but also on this
side as well.  A case in point is canoeing in the NYC area.  At one point,
in northern Manhattan along the banks of the Hudson, there were a number of
canoe boathouses for recreational and racing paddled craft.  On any weekend
prior to WW II and immediately afterwards, my understanding is that there
might be hundreds of canoes on the water paddling up toward Yonkers (another
few boathouses up there) and across to the 10 mile stretch of the park along
the Palisades where one could land, go for a swim, dance and lunch at one of
the pavilions.

Motors seemed a more modern way to go and killed off a lot of paddlesports.

ralph diaz




Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:06:31 +0100
From: (Dirk Barends)
Subject: [Paddlewise] Folding boats

> I do maintain, from a European perspective, that the increased popularity of
> cheap outboard motors in the sixties reduced the customer base for folding
> kayaks / boats.
 
I always thought that one of the main reasons for the decline of interest
for folding kayaks in that period, came form the growing ownership of cars...
People did not have to transport their kayak by train anymore... (Which worked
very well, especially in Germany, German trains even had special prices for 
that?) The growing use of the outboard motors had its influence on the whole
paddling market I think, not only folding boats?

Dirk Barends
(the Netherlands, Europe)




From: "ralph diaz"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folding boats
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:54:07 -0500

Good point.  For the matter, whether in Europe or North America, without the
use of a car, how many people would have rigid kayaks?  :-)

ralph diaz




From: [Ralph C. Hoehn]
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:15:03 EST
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folding boats

In a message dated 2/10/01 {Dirk Barends] writes:

> The growing use of the outboard motors had its influence on the whole 
> paddling market I think, not only folding boats? 

Folding boats pretty much were the paddling market during the period under 
discussion here (with the exception of a few plywood boats and some early 
fiber glass ones).

Rlaph C. Hoehn




From: "Peter A. Chopelas"
Subject: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding Boats)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:43:42 -0800

You know, Ralph Hoehn's brief history solved a curiosity I have had for 
years.  Working in the aerospace industry for years, and also have in big 
interests in aircraft design and history, I always thought it was kind of 
odd that a company like Grumman would make canoes and light fishing boats. 
They seem to me to be totally different technology and market categories 
than their main business which was making some of the most advanced combat 
aircraft in the world as far back as WW 2, super advanced for their times 
the A-6 Intruder and the F-14 Tomcat just is worlds apart from canoes.  And 
personally I saw nothing particularly innovative about their hull designs 
in terms of hull performance.

But Ralph's mention of the post war boom of manufacturing inexpensive water 
craft made the connection for me.  Like all of the giant manufacturing 
firms after the war, they had to find some other market or simply close 
down, which many of them did.  What better way to make use of all that 
surplus aluminum and expensive tooling and factories that the government 
had already paid for than make consumer products?  I know two of my 
previous employers Northrop and Boeing had tried making commercial ships 
and rail cars in their factories after the war (both were financial 
failures, I have read, I am not old enough to know first hand).

So likely it was Grumman that used the tooling and cheap surplus aluminum 
to make canoes and light fishing boats.  I would presume they were 
profitable since they have retained that market for many years.  It is 
difficult to imagine tooling up to build aluminum canoes in a relatively 
small market and making it profitable unless much of the factory costs and 
materials were basically free or a fraction of their original costs.  It 
would also put what I imagine was an innovative new way to make a canoe on 
the market fairly inexpensively, opening new markets for all paddle and 
motor powered water sports.  I do not remember hearing or reading about 
aluminum canoes prior to WW 2, perhaps others who know more can comment.

It also seem to me that the first wide spread us of fiberglass for both 
boats hull and other consumer products also started about the post war 
period as well.  And if you takes Ralph's comments about plastic hulls 
referring to fiberglass, not roto-molding, than his statement would be 
accurate.  After all epoxy and polyester are plastics.  And I can not think 
of when the first fiberglass sea kayaks were built, but I'm sure it was 
after WW2 as well.  Perhaps Matt or Cam would know the answer to that.

Were there any commercial sea kayak manufactures prior to 1960?  If so, 
prior to WW2? [except the folders of course] And what were they making them 
out of. ISTM that all of the ones I have seen prior to about 1970 were 
homemade skin on frame, or fabric folders.  If not than I would say it was 
the post WW2 canoe and light boat makers that made the current boom in sea 
kayaking possible.

Does either Ralph or Matt Boze or anyone else know of any factory kayaks 
besides folders prior to 1960?  Were there any fiberglass sea kayaks made 
before 1960 or WW2?  It would confirm that there was no viable business in 
sea kayaks prior to the current interest.

Peter




Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:18:03
From: Wes Boyd
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding
         Boats)

That's a fair read on what happened.  I'm sure that keeping skilled
employees available must also have been part of the mix. Also, just after
WWII, everyone thought that general aviation and small planes were going to
boom. They tried, and a lot went bust there, too. Trying to find new
civilian, non-aerospace markets is what sent Al Meyers to building aluminum
canoes and fishing boats. Today Meyers (which now owns Michicraft) is the
largest builder of aluminum canoes and one of the largest if not the
largest builder of aluminum fishing boats.

But there were some manufacturers there that did not derive from WWII
aviation companies. I don't know about Ozark, but Michicraft started as a
canoe company, but well after WWII when the aluminum canoe was booming (pun
not intended).

> would also put what I imagine was an innovative new way to make a canoe on 
> the market fairly inexpensively, opening new markets for all paddle and 
> motor powered water sports.  I do not remember hearing or reading about 
> aluminum canoes prior to WW 2, perhaps others who know more can comment.

It would be interesting to know who came up with the first aluminum canoe,
but I'll bet it was after WWII in the "seeking new markets" scenario. There
were some missteps. I have a 1948 Aerocraft that I think is built from the
highly bendable 2024 aluminum, rather than the 6061-T6 which later became
standard. The thing has a million dents and is not museum ready.

> It also seem to me that the first wide spread us of fiberglass for both 
> boats hull and other consumer products also started about the post war 
> period as well.

Fiberglass came along a little later, about the early to mid 1950s. We had
one of the pioneers of the technique living in this town until he died
recently, and I could have asked him just when it did get going. At this
point, we're talking runabouts, no canoes or kayaks. The early glass canoes
were awful. In terms of canoes, anyway, aluminum probably beat everybody by
10 to 1 in sales as late as the 1970s. Today, it's probably less than 5% of
the canoe market.

-- Wes




Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:00:03 -0800
From: Dave Kruger
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding
  Boats)

"Peter A. Chopelas" wrote:
 
> [snip] I do not remember hearing or reading about aluminum canoes prior
> to WW 2, perhaps others who know more can comment.

There wasn't anything made of decent aluminum that was at all cheap prior to WW
II.  High-quality aluminum for warplanes generated a market for spinoffs at the
war's end.  And, the technology to produce good aluminum was not common before
WW II.  Turns out that some of the first high-quality aircraft aluminum came
off potlines fifty miles upriver from me -- used for Boeing bombers.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR




From: "Matt Broze"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding
  Boats)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 01:13:09 -0800

  Derek Hutchinson says his 1967 North Sea Tourer was the first ocean kayak
made entirely from fiberglass and that it was inspired by a picture of a
Mackenzie Delta kayak. I believe Derek has also claimed to be the originator
of hatches and bulkheads on kayaks too. Somebody told me they heard the
North Sea Tourer's hull was based on the Wessex Sea Rapier's which dates
back to 1960 (built by J.L. GMach--who incidently also claims to have built
the first GRP (glass reinforced plastic) production "canoe" back in 1958.
Other information says the Sea Rapier was actually a design of a Norwegian
named Hoell who in 1942 called it "Seaway".  Sometime before 1965 the same
design was named "Norseman" (which had optional bulkheads, hatches & rudder)
and was built by Wessex owner(?) J.L. GMach.

  Werner Furrer Sr. (Werner Paddles founder) made a fiberglass kayak he
called an "Eskimo" back in 1964 (but didn't go into production with it)(It
had a steep V-bottom, hard chines, fine low ends, and lots of rake. He told
me its design was influenced by his friend John Heath's study of W.
Greenland kayaks (but Werner says he added a slight "V" on the fore and aft
decks). I paddled one in 1982 and again in 1996.

  The Tyee I (14'long by 2" wide) built by Linc Hales and designed by Wolf
Bauer was one of, if not earliest glass sea kayak produced in N.A. (if not
the world) and may also be the first fiberglass kayak ever to have a hatch
and a bulkhead, the hatch was on the rear deck. The Tyee I featured long
bilge keels of about 3/4" cross section and a huge cockpit (of surprisingly
modern rim configuration). I once managed to Eskimo roll one even though I
was sitting on a boat cushion for the seat, had no side support for my hips
and could barely reach the deck with my knees. I thought it handled wind and
waves a lot better than many modern kayaks and once on a day trip a couple
of women switched between it and a longer more modern 17' kayak and whoever
paddled it left the 17' kayak's paddler behind. An old timer at a WKC
meeting told me the idea to make a kayak out of fiberglass came from a
fiberglass boat (canoe or kayak) they had seen on a river kayak trip to
California. The Tyee I's date of first completion has not yet been exactly
determined (Feb. 92 Sea Kayaker p13 says Wolf designed it in the mid
60's)(after 1962 says Wolf in a WA Kayak Club video on the clubs history, he
also says then that it was modeled on the best of the folding kayaks)(An
April 2000 obituary for the builder in the WKC bulletin says the Tyee I was
first built at the end of the 50's)(Wolf told me at the 12/8/2000 WKC
meeting that it was first built in 1961). Wolf is in his 90's now and a few
years ago was still making a very entertaining slide presentation to the WKC
on shoreline erosion and man's misguided and often futile attempts to try to
control it. Wolf founded the Washington Foldboat Club (which became the WA
Kayak Club) back in 1949 (if my memory serves me). One of that clubs early
members was my uncle.  Back in 1934 Wolf ski raced in the first Silver Skis
race down from 10,000 to less than 5,000 feet elevation on Mt. Rainier. To
me this is another coincidence since my dad won that race in 1942 and the
uncle who became a WA Foldboat Club member also raced in those ski races and
so probably knew Wolf from their skiing connections before he started
kayaking. I suspect it was Wolf who influenced him to buy the Klepper he had
for so many years both here and in Alaska.

Matt Broze




From: "Matt Broze"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding
  Boats)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:09:21 -0800

   I found some even earlier fiberglass sea kayaks.
The Gulf Islander, designed by Ted Houk (and often homebuilt by early WKC
members from Ted's molds), was first built in 1959. It had a round bottom, a
1 1/4" wide flange seam, high cockpit rim much like a sprint kayak but more
rounded. The width of the hull without the flange was about 23". The
designers sons -- told me (12/8/2000) that it came after the cold molded
Amigo (1958) and two other cold molded wood prototypes Ted made in 1959.
Robert Livingston (who created the free kayak design software on our
website) paddled one from the San Juans to Johnstone Strait many years ago.

   Dick Thoms told me that in 1958 he built the first fiberglass kayak ever
built in the Seattle area. It was based on the Klepper T-6 and he made only
one of them.

Matt Broze




From: "ralph diaz"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats & Need kayak 
  identification
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:56:22 -0500

From: "Matt Broze"

> Is this the general consensus out there?
> I've been around this business since before "cheaper plastic" sea kayaks
> (and before sea kayak retail stores existed outside the NW corner of the
> US--and SW corner of Canada) and sea kayaking (much less paddling) never
> seemed in danger of not surviving to me and in fact was rapidly gaining in
> popularity even before plastic came on the scene.

I think the word "survive" spoken by the other Ralph should have been
"thrive."  I mean "thrive" in the sense of really taking off.  The
polyethylene kayaks reduced prices sufficiently that people who were (and
are) curious about sea kayaking are willing to take a chance in buying one.
It isn't too much of a stretch of the pocketbook for someone to plunk down
$800 for a basic polyethylene kayak while it does take them to nosebleed
levels if they have to shell out $2,000 and more for a fiberglass kayak.

This still holds today.  Low price polyethylene kayaks draw people in and
help companies too.  I recall about 8 years ago talking with an owner of a
pretty savvy kayak manufacturing company.  His company had just started
producing polyethylene boats.  I knew from previous conversations with him
that he had great pride in the fiberglass and other composite materials
boats his company made.  I asked him why he had started producing plastic
after all these years and some derisive early comments about plastic by him.
He said, "Ralph, making plastic boats is the next best thing to printing
money."  The margins are huge and the room for discounting, sales pricing,
etc. is vast.  All, of course, after the initial huge capital expenditure fo
r the plastic boat making machines and molds.

If it had not been for plastic, I believe growth would have been limited.
The sea kayaking industry would have grown but not like it did (and does).
Fiberglass boats can only be made at a certain rate what with hand layups,
curing times, finishing work etc.  Plastic is quicker and less hand, and
most importantly, less skill intensive.  You know that there are good
fiberglass craftsmen and there are less than good ones.  In plastic, that
skill level imperative plays a less of a part.

Let us take ourselves back to the late 1980s and pretend for a moment that
plastic sea kayaks, starting with the Lee Moyers designed Aquaterra Chinook
around 1984, had not come along.  Let's say suddenly because of Sea Kayaker
magazine and good columns from the likes of Matt Broze, Lee Moyers, et al a
whole lot of people are inticed into wanting to buy boats.  I doubt that any
wildly increased demand could have been kept up with were the only offerings
longer to make and more expensive to produce fiberglass boats.  Large
demand, more limited supply would have driven up prices (a dampener on
demand for many many inquisitive wannabe buyers) and/or wound up producing
less than perfect fiberglass ones, i.e. shoddier workmanship.

> Feathercraft never seemed to be doing anything but expanding as long as I
> can remember them (since about 1982).

Actually, for the longest time in the 1980s, Feathercraft was just hanging
on by its fingernails.  It got some nasty competitive statements coming out
of the East that cast doubt on its products.  It went through some fits and
starts in choices of hull material and some nasty stuff said about them from
a major folding kayak dealer in the West.  It was only real persistence and
great designs that saw the company finally through.

> I wonder if Folbot would give us a sales history from well before 1984 to
> as recently as they would be willing to. I think I recall Folbot ads in
> Canoe magazine since the mid 70's and in magazines like Popular Mechanics
> since the 50's.

Both Folbot and Klepper did wonderfully well in the 1950s-1970s.  Remember
that in some ways, Klepper was the only show in town in the 1950s-1970s with
Folbot benefiting from lower price offerings alternatives to it.   But then
hard times hit.  Klepper closed its factory doors for a few years and Folbot
went through a period of offering much too many models, getting a bad
reputation on quality (really undeserved), and the death of the founder and
owner Jack Kissner.  Also the rise of rigid kayaks starting in the late
1970s and then plastic in the mid 1980s with their image of
indestructibility affected folding kayak sales.

Anyway, that is my take.

ralph diaz




From: Chuck Holst
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding
  Boats)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:09:13 -0600

From: Matt Broze

>  Derek Hutchinson says his 1967 North Sea Tourer was the first ocean kayak
> made entirely from fiberglass and that it was inspired by a picture of a
> Mackenzie Delta kayak. I believe Derek has also claimed to be the originator
> of hatches and bulkheads on kayaks too.

Dan Cook claims that members of the Nordkapp Expedition of 1975 invented 
bulkheads, hatches, and the built-in bilge pump expressly for the 
expedition, though this might have been a parallel invention. At the Great 
Lakes Sea Kayak Symposium a few years ago, he showed several slides of the 
different hatches they experimented with before they settled on one design.

Chuck Holst




Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:57:17 +0100
From: Gerald Maroske
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: Folding
  Boats)

Hello Matt,

I think Derek had to come some years earlier to be the first with hatches and
bulkheads.

Artur Tiller made a drawing for a single cruising kayak which featured a
bulkhead aft and the corresponding deck hatch. The drawing is dated 1924
and published 1926 together with some other kayaks designed with bulkheads
in his book.

Gerald




From: "Jochen Grikschat"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking (was: FoldingBoats)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:26:00 +0100

Hello all hobby historians!

Arhur Tiller´s book is still available in a reprint, published in germany
by Delius&Klasing "Handbuch des Wassersports" (handbook of watersports).
practics of wooden shipbuilding in all kind of sportboats... 404 pages, 60
plans... hardcover for 49,80 DEM, about 24 USD. ISBN 3-7688-1018-6

I hold an old exemplar a few months ago in my hands. There are some parts
about all kind of rowing ships, means inclusive the kayaks of that time.




From: "Peter A. Chopelas"
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking 
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:58:50 -0800

I just happened to run across this information this weekend on the use of 
fiberglass in boats, which is relevant to some of the earlier postings:

>From "Fiberglass Boat Design and Construction" by Robert J. Scott pub. John 
de Graf, Inc. Tuchahoe, New York 1973

=======================

"...The first fiberglass boats were introduced shortly after World War II 
as a result of research by both military and commercial interests.  The 
boasts which evolved from these early efforts proved to be strong, light 
weight , water tight and easy to maintain. These advantages were 
instrumental in establishing the strong role which fiberglass played during 
the small boat "boom" in the 1950's and 1960's, and to its present position 
as the most popular material for building small boats."


and

"....among the first were a series of 28 foot US Navy personnel boats. 
Since then, the Navy has continued to rely heavily on FRP [Fiberglass 
Reinforced Plastic] for the construction of thousands of small boats from 
12 feet to 50 feet in length including landing craft, utility and personnel 
boats, line handling boats and whaleboats.  Perhaps the most famous Navy 
fiberglass boat is the 31 foot PBR River Patrol Boat, which has seen 
extensive service in Southeast Asia.
	"The US Coast Guard has employed FRP for the construction of a wide 
variety of utility and patrol boats up to 40 feet.....

	"...The first [pleasure boat] uses of FRP were in small runabouts and 
sailboats, with both the size and number increasing each year....The 
largest FRP yachts in series production are now about 85 feet. ...The 
highly competitive nature of the pleasure boat industry has resulted in 
numerous design and production innovations to improve the performance and 
reduce the cost of fiberglass structures..."

	"The development of large fiberglass fishing trawlers began in 1960 in 
South Africa with the construction of a series of 63 foot long pilchard 
trawlers...[which lead to} parallel developments in the United States...The 
first such vessel was the 72 foot trawler...launched in Florida in 1968...
	"The development of FRP minesweepers was begun simultaneously by the US 
and British Navies in the early 1960's...

======================

So my casual observation that there were not any fiberglass pleasure boats 
prior to WWII, and the postings about the first fiberglass kayaks did not 
show up until about 1960(?) and no production fiberglass kayaks until the 
early 1970's is consistent with the above author's experience (he is an 
experienced navel architect with a masters in Marine Engineering and worked 
for Gibbs & Cox Inc of New York).  So fiberglass manufacture of pleasure 
boats in not that old, compared most other traditional boat building 
materials.

Also constant with this was my memories of a neighbor who built a skin on 
frame kayak in about 1967 using a fiberglass skin instead of the then more 
common canvas and paint.  Then a friend of mine and I "found" an old skin 
on frame two hole kayak in a trash bin in about 1974 and rebuilt it.  It 
had a broken wood frame, rotting and torn cotton skin, and represented way 
too much consistent for two high school kids looking for adventure to pass 
up.  So we rode it home somehow on our bicycles, one holding each end, 
through the traffic, and set about rebuilding it.

Since it seemed the rotting canvas had poor durability (we had no idea how 
old it was, but it looked old), fiberglass seemed the most modern skin we 
could put on it.  So we scavenged materials, including someone's left over 
fiberglass cloth, bought what we could not find, rebuilt the frame and 
reskined it.  It did not look like the real slick new molded kayaks just 
showing up at the time, but it was strong and held water, even if our handy 
work was somewhat unskilled and unattractive.

So despite kayaks being ancient in origin, its modern history is not very 
old.  I.e. there was only a few companies commercially making folding 
kayaks prior to WWII, and I do not think anyone one commercially 
manufacturing non-folding skin on frame kayaks in any large numbers ever. 
 And commercially made molded fiberglass sea kayaks did not show up until 
about 1970(?).

Does any have a guess how many commercially manufactured sea kayaks are 
sold today world wide?  And how many folding kayaks?

Peter




From: "ralph diaz"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking 
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:00:16 -0500

From: "Peter A. Chopelas"

> So despite kayaks being ancient in origin, its modern history is not very
> old.  I.e. there was only a few companies commercially making folding
> kayaks prior to WWII, and I do not think anyone one commercially
> manufacturing non-folding skin on frame kayaks in any large numbers ever.
> And commercially made molded fiberglass sea kayaks did not show up until
> about 1970(?).

There were a lot more than a "few" companies making folding kayaks
commercially prior to WW II.  I counted up their names and locations (most
in Germany) from the Der Haderkahn book on the history of folding kayaks
published in 1989.  I recall that there were about 80 companies producing
the boats prior to WWII.  Obviously some were small but the large ones were
quite massive in their yearly production turnout.  Klepper was probably the
largest and in many popular paddling spots often hundreds of foldables would
be on the water at the same time on a good weekend.

> Does any have a guess how many commercially manufactured sea kayaks are
> sold today world wide?  And how many folding kayaks?

I once had a reasonable handle on this in the early 1990s.  Using a lot of
extrapolation from knowledge I had of the production run of two of the
largest hardshell companies and knowing the same, with more precision, for
the folding kayak companies, I came up with some figure.  I can't remember
what that was and it would be inapplicable now since since then many more
companies have been making plastic kayaks that previously only did
fiberglass such as Wilderness Systems.  Polyethylene really changed things
in providing entry-level (as well as better boats) at a cheap price that has
drawn an avalanche of interest and buyers.

ralph diaz




From: "Matt Broze"
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:04:47 -0800

Peter Chopelas wrote:

> Does any have a guess how many commercially manufactured sea kayaks are
> sold today world wide?  And how many folding kayaks?

No, but I could give you a minimum number for "ever was kayaks" rather than
just those still sold today. Obviously, there are more that I don't know of
yet.
The number of one-person kayak builders I know of worldwide as of today is
689. These aren't all commercial builders but most of the non-commercial
builders fall into the wood kayak subsection. The breakdown is 146 wood
kayak builders (those with distinct designs--not just those building someone
else's designs) with a total of 450 models among them, 131 skin on frame,
folding, or wood/canvas kayak builders, building 510 models of singles (and
doubles--this category only)(this isn't counting any of the true Eskimo
designs--in museums--see David Zimmerley's website www.arctickayaks.com for
21 pages listing those), 222 North American builders of fiberglass and/or
plastic kayaks (excluding whitewater, wave skis, competition kayaks and
competition surf skis--but including recreational, rec. sit-on-top, touring,
and sea kayaks) with 943 models. 190 builders of glass and plastic singles
in 21 countries outside of North America building 737 (substantially
different) named models. That's a total of 2640 models from 689 builders
(including the double folding kayaks--I haven't yet separated them out into
their own spreadsheet--I'd guess maybe 150 to 200 of those I listed in the
fabric kayak category are doubles). Actually, because of the individual
variations easily possible with most of the non-folding kayaks in the skin
on frame category there are probably many more individual models unnamed
that actually vary more than some of the plastic or glass kayaks with a new
deck or hatch arrangement and a different name attached. The biggest listing
of folding kayak companies and models is at
http://www.faltbootkabinett.de/index.html.

Some designers of their own personal kayaks or commercial kayaks posting on
paddlewise are:

PETER CHOPELAS:Peter A. Chopelas is one builder/designer with two skin
kayaks so far.
	BPB-01  (10-4) (1st. predotype)
	Stretched Retrieval Kayak (10-4)(folding)

COMPANY NAME UNKNOWN:Fernando López Arbarello
	Name unknown (?) 	1991      (would you like to fill me in on the details
Fernando?)

DUANE STROSAKER:Duane Strosaker  is another with his new wood kayak
	Prototype Sea/Surf kayak  (14-0)

ROBERT LIVINGSTON:Robert Livingston  (all fiberglass)
	Excalibur  (17-1) 	<1981
	Ursa Minor (15-7)(first plug)1983
	Ursa Minor  (15-7) 	1984
	Ursa Micro   (13-2) 	1985
	Ursa Major   (16-5) 	1986
	Ursa 350    (?)	2001  (mold just completed, have you named 
                               it yet Robert? dimensions?)

FERGUSON KAYAKS/SEALAND PUBLICATIONS:Alex "Sandy" Ferguson
	Seaward W  (17-2.5)(W=wood plans)	<1990
	Coastal   (?)	<1985
	Mac 50   (?)	<1999
	Mist  (?)(tortured plywood)	<1999
	"T" Class  (?)	2000
< in front of the year means "older than"

There are several other kayak designer's contributing to paddlewise
including Nick Schade, and John Winters
Who have I missed?

BTW, if you have designed a kayak (or know of someone who is designing or
building kayaks locally but hasn't done any advertising nationally) I would
be most interested in knowing about you (or them) and the kayaks. I collect
the following data (when I can), Country of origin, Company name (year Co.
founded, Co. address, phone & fax #'s, e-mail and website address), company
owner's name, Single kayak model name, designer's name, year of first
introduction (or oldest reference found), the kayaks length, width, volume,
depth (inside cockpit front from bottom of the coaming to the inside of
hull), inside length and width of the cockpit. On the 550 plus kayaks I have
paddled I time how fast they can spin in place and turn at speed (both when
level and leaned up to where water is not quite spilling into the cockpit if
I don't have a spraydeck on--or as much as I dare given the outfitting if I
can't safely lean that much). If I'm testing near my store I also time top
speed in a short sprint over a fixed course.


Matt Broze

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