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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:37:46 -0800
From: Clark
Subject: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats

Hello everyone,

I have recently been given a mystery boat (to me) and I am trying to find out
more about it.  It is a folding boat that seats three people and covers to
make a nice 3 person kayak.  In addition it has a rudder, main sail, and a
jib!  The note that came with it said "Free to good home circa 1950 Granta".
On the paddle it says "Built by Granta folding boats Cottenham, England".  If
anyone has some info on this boat or can lead me in the right direction to do
my own research I would greatly appreciate it.

Jeff




Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:45:15 -0500 
From: Scott Camlin
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats

A Google search turned up this uk.rec.boats.paddle newsgroup listing from
last December:

....a Granta folding Canoe made by Granta boats, Cottenham, Cambridge

Jerry Murland

This was a response to another lucky soul who found an old boat....

Granta boats apparently was an older manufacturer whose boats were named
after the Granta River in Cambridgeshire.

Scott Camlin




Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:31:00 -0800
From: Matt Broze
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats

GRANTA BOATS LTD:(all wood frame, canvas deck)   29 Great Whyte, Ramsey,
Huntington, Cambs PE17 1EZ,  England    0487-813777 (Sold to Ottersports)(in
78 Canoe Magazine's Buyer's Guide address listed is: 23 Great
White)(Canadian address:W. Royalty Ind. Park, Charlottetown, P.I.E. C1E 1B0)

You didn't give its dimensions but it is likely to be one of these models or
a predecessor.

The info on the following two kayaks is extracted mostly from the 1978 Canoe
Magazine's Buyer's Guide:
Kestral   (17-0) (wood frame, PVC skin)(double)  32" wide, 108" by 23"
cockpit opening
Family "K"  (20-0) (wood frame, PVC skin)(double or triple)   36" wide, 170"
by 24" cockpit opening.

Alan Byde says in ASKC#64 Nov 87 (Anglesey Sea Kayak Club Newsletter--I
think, not sure of the spelling) that they were originally "Folbot", and
that in 1932 Fridel Meyer of Germany paddled a Folbot from Bravaria to
London.

FOLBOT FOLDING BOATS LTD:(1933)  21 Hatfield St., London EC, England
(Spr98C&KHA#25--built Folboat folding "canoes" and Kingfisher rigid "canoes"
in the 1930's)(I suspect this company is somehow connected to Folbot Inc.
(see below) but don't no how. Maybe one of the Folding kayak gurus named
Ralph on this list can straighten me out about the origins or why the names
are similar.

FOLBOT INC:Phil Cotton (1933)(only folding kayaks--kits are now at Bryant B.
W.)   4209 Pace. St., Charlestown, SC  29405 (was?also? P.O.Box 70877, Stark
Ind. Park, Charlestown, SC  29415)(12/95SKad-(800)533-5099,
12/95SK-(800)528-9592, 99-01CBG-(843)744-3483, fax:(803)744-7783,
98rec.boats FAQ--(800)744-3483  folbot1@aol.com   www.folbot.com

Matt Broze




Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:30:21 -0500
From: ralph diaz
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats

I really am not up on the Granta folding kayaks as the make died long before
I came on the paddling scene.  (They also made kit boats.)  Britain had a
meaningful folding kayak industry prior to WW II.  These boats were used by
the Special Boat Service clandestine operators in various missions against
the Germans and the Japanese.  It started life under the name Special
Folboat service but that name was changed as it gave away too much of what
it was all about.  The Germans for some reason did not want to export
Kleppers to the British during the war and so local folding kayaks were
used.

> Alan Byde says in ASKC#64 Nov 87 (Anglesey Sea Kayak Club Newsletter--I
> think, not sure of the spelling) that they were originally "Folbot", and
> that in 1932 Fridel Meyer of Germany paddled a Folbot from Bravaria to
> London.

She also won some race against all comers circumnavigating Great Britain or
most of a circumnavigation anyway.

>
> FOLBOT FOLDING BOATS LTD:(1933)  21 Hatfield St., London EC, England
> (Spr98C&KHA#25--built Folboat folding "canoes" and Kingfisher rigid
> "canoes" in the 1930's)(I suspect this company is somehow connected to
> Folbot Inc. (see below) but don't no how. Maybe one of the Folding kayak
> gurus named Ralph on this list can straighten me out about the origins
> or why the names are similar.

The other Ralph (Hoehn) probably is better plugged in since he reads German
better than I do and most folding kayak literature is in that tongue.
Perhaps he has the answer to why the Gerrmans would not export Kleppers to
the Brits during the war.

> FOLBOT INC:Phil Cotton (1933)(only folding kayaks--kits are now at Bryant
> B. W.)   4209 Pace. St., Charlestown, SC  29405 (was?also? P.O.Box 70877,
> Stark Ind. Park, Charlestown, SC  29415)(12/95SKad-(800)533-5099,
> 12/95SK-(800)528-9592, 99-01CBG-(843)744-3483, fax:(803)744-7783,
> 98rec.boats FAQ--(800)744-3483  folbot1@aol.com   www.folbot.com

Same company.  It was started by Jack Kissner, a German who I believe had
worked at the Klepper factory and moved to London in the early 1930s to
found the Folboat Company.  I have a catalog or pages from one from around
1934, I think (I would have to check my archives).  The company moved to New
York City around 1938.  It moved to Charleston, South Carolina in the 1950s.
Kissner ran the company all that time until his death in the early 1980s.
He was eccentric but then, again, most of us folding kayakers are.  You
havta be with our boats!

ralph
--




Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 07:16:42 EST
From: [Ralph C. Hoehn]
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Granta Folding boats

I'm waiting for some more detailed information on Friedel Meyer that might be 
forthcoming from the other side of the pond.

Jack Kissner actually started Folbot in Germany, already before his move to 
the UK. See: www.Folbot.com. Phil Cotton has an historical overview on the 
website.

Granta, Tyne and a couple of other folding boat builders were reasonably 
healthy in the UK well into the sixties, although it appears that they eeked 
out the latter part of their existence by reducing costs to the buyer by 
selling boats in kit form (thus avoiding having to charge a good part of the 
labor).

What did in some of these marvelous old companies was the advent of cheap 
outboard motors on cheap plastic hulls (rather than "cheap" fiber glass 
kayaks, as is often believed), which made "water sports with the family" much 
more convenient and comfortable (though a little less sporty?!?). 

In fact paddling on the whole only survived because of the emergence of 
cheaper plastic kayaks. This in turn has allowed a modern renaissance of 
folding boats (which the other Ralph has been documenting for the last decade 
of its growth on this continent).

As to why the Krauts would not have sold folding kayaks to the Tommies in WW 
II, I have no idea. Hey, they sold "equipment" to Iraq, Iran, Libya ... T34s 
(Russian tanks of WW II) were propelled by adapted aluminium aircraft engines 
made by Maybach (Germany!!) ... perhaps if more Brits had learnt to read the 
assembly instructions in German there might have been a market ... it worked 
in the USA, where at one point the German speaking population was almost as 
large as the English speaking part (ent ve are not too far behint zese 
dayss!!).

The Other Ralph




Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:32:45 +0100
From: Marian Gunkel
Subject: [Paddlewise] Folding Boat history (was: Re: Granta Folding boats)

Ralph Diaz wrote:

> Britain had a meaningful folding kayak industry prior to WW II.  These boats
> were used by the Special Boat Service clandestine operators in various
> missions against the Germans and the Japanese.

According to the book "SBS the Inside Story of the Special Boat Service",
they used production line boats only for the first few missions, then
quickly had some special semi-rigid boats custom-made. For the
"cockleshell-hero-mission", they already used very heavy boats, which I
would not call folding kayaks anymore.
I haven't got that book around so I can't be more precise (I read a library
copy when I was in Britain). For those with a military interest, have a
look, for everybody else it is not worth it.

> The Germans for some reason did not want to export Kleppers to the British
> during the war and so local folding kayaks were used.

Quite right. Most, if not all German folding kayak companies had to shut
down their kayak production in order to produce "war important goods"
(direct translation). This happened even before WWII broke out, Klepper
seems to have been producing *some* kayaks until 1941 (I'll have to look
that one up, too). So, there wasn't much to export.
Another note: quite soon after the Nazis took over, several Jewish owned
folding kayak companies had to be sold, for a ridiculous small price. A
group of some "Amateur researchers" has just started to find out more about
the organized water sport movements in the 20s and 30s, how everything was
brought to an abrupt end in 1933 and how Nazis influenced the sport
organizations after 1945.

> Kissner ... was eccentric but then, again, most of us folding kayakers
> are. You havta be with our boats!

Well put, Ralph. I like to be eccentric (but that was a very minor reason to
get into foldables).

Matt Broze:

> Alan Byde says in ASKC#64 Nov 87 (Anglesey Sea Kayak Club Newsletter

Advanced Sea Kayaking Club - lead by John Ramwell, a British paddler legend.
Now it's called International Sea Kayaking Association.

Marian

Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany

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