Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:53:06 -0600
From: Steve Jernigan
Subject: [Paddlewise] Wet DryBags

I can't recall seeing much discussion on this, and so would like to solicit
some advice from the good folks on this list. I have used one of the
roll-top backpack/drybag things without problem for flatwater pursuits.
However 5 or 10 minutes immersion in flowing water and exposure to sundry
accompanying riverine forces allowed enough river into my bag to dampen the
contents, which included some sthuff which I had REALLY hoped to keep dry
(that's why I put it in the drybag in the first place, right?).
No real problem THIS TIME, but . . .
So. Question then: when it really must stay dry, wadda ya do? Must I
"double-bag" everything for insurance? Any drybag style clearly superior?
Any dryness prayers or appeasements to the river gods I need to invoke?
TIA!
ByeBye!
S. 



Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:17:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark Zen 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Wet DryBags

cascade designs bags work for me ;-) from a few "wet incidents" myself, i
have learned: while many folks pump air into their bags, for extra
flotaion, this seems to suck in the water, as the cold water "compresses"
the air in the bag, causing a sucking in of water. If I burp the bags, and
later have an incident, rarely ever does water leak in. don't over fill
the bag, you want _several_ folds over to be secure...

mark

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mark zen                      o,    o__              o_/|    o_.
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:13:46 -0700
From: Dave Kruger 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Wet DryBags

Never put any of my drybags to the surf test, but it is tough for me to imagine
much leakage IF the closure has at least three full wraps.  Only if it is
"pressure cycled" in the water deeply enough to "burp" and "inverse-burp" can I
imagine more than a teaspoon getting inside.

Check the bag for leaks.  Gotta have a second hole to get much inside.

- -- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR



Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:57:34 -0600
From: "rdempsey" 
Subject: [Paddlewise] 'Dry Bags"

    We have used the same (5) SeaLine Boundary Packs dry bags for 5 years
(about 160 days usage) in our open canoe...and although they have never been
dumped into moving water, they have done well enough laying in several
inches of  canoe bilge-water, and in ferocious wind driven rain. Being
somewhat neurotic about these things, our down sleeping bags go into 4mil
plastic bags inside the dry bags, as do clothing,books,etc.

I am fortunate that  there have been  no witnesses (other than my wife, who
merely suspects that I may be "mad")  to my "packing process" .  I fill each
drybag 2/3's full and roll the top seam down just twice.Then  I "lean-over
them" until nearly all the air is expelled ( from the bag!!) ...I am always
amazed to find  that the 2/3rds full bag is now only 1/2 full. Then,  I
quickly stuff the last few items in...and again apply the weight of my body
to the bag, until the last whisper of air is driven out.THEN, I triple roll
the seam.

The dry bags when ready to load into the canoe have a "puckered" appearance
to them.....from (I assume) a small vacuum within ...... The only "wetness"
I have found inside the bags is when I pack a damp tarp, sneakers, or other
"moist items" inside.  (Which is think is merely  internal "evaporation" as
the dry bags warm in the sun. The amount of moisture is still within  the
"wipe off the inside of the bag range".

Oh....and before we leave for each trip, I also stick the dry bag (empty)
over my head, and stand in strong sunlight looking for pin hole leaks, and
patch any I find with either duct tape of bicycle tire inner tube patches.
My wife has accepted these antics, as "normal".... please do not let her
know otherwise.....It too a VERY long time to meet her.

rich dempsey
Riverton, WY



Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:37:26 -0500
From: "Larry Koenig" 
Subject: [Paddlewise] wet dry bags

Perhaps the care and feeding of dry bags is widely understood and I'm just
burning up band width here but  ...  to keep water out, the closure must be
rather meticulously effected.  After the excess volume is expunged, the
sides that mate should be smoothly coapted and stay so throughout the
entwining.  Wrinkles, gaps and slack in the roll are anathema.  I find it
helpful, once three or more tight wraps have been snugged , to give one side
an extra twist before the buckle is engaged.  This ensures that the rolls
won't be loosed and  precludes the entry of brine into the protected kit.
;-)
Larry Koenig



Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:41:40 -0500
From: "Arthur Hebert"
Subject: [Paddlewise] wet/ dry bags

Here is something I do to help maintain the wrinkle free closer Larry 
spoke of. When bags are not in use ( stored in the gear closet) they are 
roll up very very tightly and held that way with a wide rubber band. The 
rolling process is started at the open end of the bag, assuring the flap 
and bag is wrinkle free. Ultimately there is some air trapped in the 
bottom of the bag (the end of the roll) but that is ok, as long as the 
open end is rolled tight tight. This also helps forms that much needed 
crease at the folds. Just cause we get wrinkles as we get older, our 
bags don't have to.
Arthur Hebert 



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:46:24 -0600
From: Steve Jernigan 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 'Dry Bags"

Hi Rich et al!

See?!? I knew it! An arcane pre-packing ritual that I have totally
ignored; no wonder my stuff got wet. Next time I'll be sure to perform the
above ritual with each and every bag. Rich seems embarrassed to say so,
(probably concerned lest his Ms. find out) but I'm sure the ritual involves
more than simply standing in the bright sun with the drybag over ones
noodle; perhaps a three-step in cadence while chanting "hydrophobia
hydrophobic hydrophobe hydro-no" and holding the roll of duct tape aloft in
one hand and the patch kit in the other . . . ;-)

But seriously, folks, thanx for the input. Several suggested "burping" the
bag; this is rather counter-intuitive. I had been more or less compressing
the air inside the bag as I rolled it up, in the vague hope that a positive
pressure on the inside would keep the water on the outside. Guess I need to
experiment a bit down at the local puddle, hmmm? Also, someone put in a
plug for the Watershed bags. Ouch! They be pricey li'l dudes, but sometimes
you actually do get what you pay for. Any other satisfied Watershed
customers out there?

Also, someone from over at RBP chimed in suggesting that the only real
sure-fire way to keep dihydrogen monoxide (DHM, see
http://www.cis.udel.edu/~way/DMRD/index.html for more on this silent
killer) from the river from permeating your supplies is to rigorously
double and triple bag your gear, and then stuff the entire mess into a
roomy canvas bag. I am forced to admit that this has a certain primitive
allure, especially after seeing the price sheet for the Watershed products.
Not exactly the hot ticket for quick -n- easy access tho. Perhaps a
combination of tactics is in order, where items likely to be needed in the
course of the day are kept in one of the high dollar guaranteed waterproof
Watershed sacks while the remaining gear is confined within multiple layers
of PVC and canvas. 'Course I always seem to drag so much s*** along that my
day-bag would need to be dufflebag sized anyway . . . so it goes! 
ByeBye! S.