Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:55:09 -0800 
From: "Mattson, Timothy G" 
Subject: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

I have a serious question about kids kayaks -- not inflatable toys.  

I am planning to start paddling with my kids this spring.  I've put them in
my own kayaks and while they love it, they can't really do very much with
them.  I could also get double kayaks, but (no offense to you doublers) I've
never been able to enjoy double kayaks.  Part of the fun of kayaking is the
connection between the paddler, the boat, and the water, and you just can't
get that in a double.

So, I'm looking at buying two small kayaks for my boys -- and I do mean
small.  My yougest is 6 while my older boy is 8.   Do any of you know of
anywhere a person can go to buy a real kayak scaled down to fit small
children?  I am all thumbs in the shop, but i'd even build a couple if I
could find a kit for slimed down, children's boats.

There have to be other parents on this list who have already dealt with this
problem.  What did you do?

- --Tim



Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:54:37 -0800
From: Dave Kruger 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

I have not had to deal with this (my son is 26), but one [high-labor,
lesser cost] option is to build a couple Pygmy kits, sized to fit them. 
When they outgrow those, they will probably be ready for a smaller
"full-size" yak.  

I believe Lockwood has kits for smaller people, because his daughter is
shown paddling craft apropos for her size in their literature.  These kits
may not be listed on the Web site, but a phone call will probably net a
response (Pygmy is notoriously slow on email response).  I can vouch for
the ease of construction, as can others -- lotsa people I know have built
Pygmy kits.  I would not worry about how many thumbs you have!

Here is the Web site:  http://www.pygmyboats.com/index.htm

I have not looked at CLC's literature recently, but I bet they would also
have kits for smaller people.  Their Web site:  http://www.clcboats.com/

- -- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR



Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:58:34 -0500
From: "Lorraine&Dennis" 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

Tim, try looking at the Perception Umiak(another name for the on-going names
discussion!).  I've used these with children the size of yours and found
them to be quite satisfactory.  You might even find a couple used as I think
most are bought for your very reason, and then subsequently outgrown.

Dennis



Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:58:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Richard Strickland 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

I would add the Wilderness Systems "Piccolo" to the list. I was out
with another couple last summer, my son (8) in the Piccolo and theirs
(9) in the Umiak. They are very similar in design, performance, and
price--both plastic, rudderless, and unbulkheaded (float bags
essential!)--although my son felt the Piccolo had the more comfortable
seat.

I think 8 may be about the minimum age for anything other than playing
around the shore, considering size and strength, attention span,
judgment, and ability to follow instructions. Maybe a mature, athletic
7-year-old would be OK.

Richard in Seattle



Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:45:34 EST
From: JCMARTIN43@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

In a message dated 1/7/99 3:57:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dkruger writes:

<< 
 I have not looked at CLC's literature recently, but I bet they would also
 have kits for smaller people.  Their Web site:  http://www.clcboats.com/
  >>

They don't have kits for kids yet, but they do have plans for a "Cape Charlie"
which might work out.

Jack Martin



Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:59:39 EST
From: DANJW
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

I would also consider the Wilderness Systems Rascal. While it is not a scaled
down version of a touring kayak ( like the Piccolo and Umiak are ) it is very
stable and the most "un-tub-like" of the smaller recreational kayaks. The hull
is a multi-chine design and it flares out considerably above the water line,
so that for someone as light as a 6 or 8 year old the effect is almost like
having sponsons attached to the hull. We have had kids as young as 5 year olds
paddling this boat, and with their weight and low center of gravity, stability
is excellent.            Dan



Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:52:23 -0500
From: Michael R Noyes 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

Tim;
Whatever you do don't make the mistake I did.  I bought one of those "tub"
kayaks for my daughter, figuring that the extra stability would be an asset.  As
it turned out she couldn't paddle without hitting her hands on the boat because
of the width.  Although she still loves paddling she never really liked that
boat.  I would suggest letting the boys try the boat out to see how they can
paddle it before putting any money down.

Mike
P.S.  My daughter (now 17) has an aversion now to any kayak with a beam of more
than 22 inches.  She LOVES my Caribou, even though it is too large for her (5'
2", 102 lbs.).  Her choice is the Wilderness Systems Tchaika.


- --



Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:32:12 -0500
From: "Gary Tabor" 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kids' kayak -- really

You might also check out:  http://www.pygmyboats.com/

They also have models for the little paper.

Gary Tabor