PaddleWise Discussion on Kayaker Visibility On Water




Date: Wed, 2 Aug 
From: "Dalberg, Tor" 
Subject: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers

Hi Paddlers 

The recognition of seakayaks depends to a great extent of colours on the boat
and the equipment. If all paddles was red, boats yellow and flotation aid
screaming red this would be as good as possible for normal use. A flag and
flashing light (for evenings) in addition will improve. 

Dealer offers sea alike camouflage colours. I myself have a green bluish
floatation aid (not recommendable) and a yellow boat (seakayak type Hasle
Exporer) and blue spray deck. I am still alive but the visibility could have
been better. 

The dealers have a great responsibility to recommend products with adequate
visibility.

I wander if there are possible to spray on colours for better visibility on
paddles?
Regards / Med hilsen
Tor Dalberg
http://www.dnv.no


Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:42:54 -0000 From: Mark Lane Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers Hello Tor, My kayak is beige over beige, and I really like the look. I use a varnished wooden paddle. I have a yellow PFD that I wear on larger bodies of water that have motor boat activity, but I like to wear a green PFD on quieter waters. I also try to use deck gear that is of natural tones. In general, I very much prefer boats and gear that are of soft, subtle natural colors -- I don't much like the bright colors. I do fear that the over-emphasis on color as related to safety may cause some lawmakers to consider legislating the color of boats and gear, and that concerns me. I think it should remain a personal choice. As for painting on colors, I would think it would be an easy matter on composite or wood boats, but I'm not sure about painting poly boats. In trying to figure out where you are (what waters you paddle), I visited the web site listed in your message. What a fascinating operation! It seems your foundation is very much involved in issues of maritime safety, particularly with respect to shipping and oil exploration and drilling, correct? Have you or DNV done any studies of safety as it relates to color of vessels or equipment? Just wondering . . . . Mark
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:00:27 -0500 From: (Tim) NEWTOT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers Short Story re visibility: I didn't think visibility was a major issue paddling lakes here in the Ozarks, where the most common craft is a 2 man bass boat. That all changed on Pomme de Terre Lake when a storm arrived with brute force while only 500 yards from shore, near a boat ramp. I was in a friend's tippy Beluga, which immediately blew over and I was unable to roll back up. There I was in the water waving my paddle frantically as bass boats zoomed by at full speed to escape the storm - the wind and rain reduced visibility more than I could ever imagine, as many boats came within 20 feet (no joke!!) of me. I thought for sure I was going to be hit, even with my paddle waving high. This went on for 15 minutes! Finally a boater spotted me before running me over and pulled me out. My wife was about 20 yards away, overturned as well in a blue CD squall - we could hardly see her. We proceed to pull her aboard too. This was a learning experience! I thought we could make it back to our launch site before the storm became severe - I expected a gradual build up, not dead calm to hurricane! The world was a classroom that day! The beluga was yellow but partially submerged, my PFD was red and black. I think blue was a bad color choice for the Squall. I think your PFD color is every bit as important as your boat. Just a note expressing that visibility is not only an ocean freighter issue!
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:11:05 -0700 From: "Jack Fu" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers Hi, My Romany is bright yellow, top and bottom. Why did I get the boat with this color? Because the Coast Guard told me that is the most visible color on the sea, and therefore the color they like best in searches. White, which I had thought would be good, is not good because a white kayak can be confused with cresting foam and whitecaps. Jack Fu
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:33:12 -0700 From: ralph diaz Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers > a personal choice. As for painting on colors, I would think it would be an > easy matter on composite or wood boats, but I'm not sure about painting poly > boats. You _can_ spray paint polyethylene boats. Perhaps the spray paint won't stay on forever. But it will stick. I know of one fellow here in NYC Harbor with a sit-on-top boat who did spray paint with some day glo neon color. I was out on a trip in the harbor and I looked up the Hudson about a mile and half and could see his boat even though it was a hazy day. The boat looked like s--t but it was certainly visible at incredible distances. ralph - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:26:54 -0600 From: Jim Meldrum Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers I was lead to believe that a light blue was the most visible color at sea. I was recently involved with a rescue on a large inland lake in northern Alberta. The helicopter, police boat and plane spotted the light blue 18 foot CLC WR 180 before it spotted the bright yellow 21 foot double Tred Avon. The conditions were cloudy, 5 - 6 foot whitecapping waves, 40 knot winds and light rain. :) Jim Meldrum Slave Lake, Alberta. Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:29:43 -0800 Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers From: "Seng, Dave" We have a former SAR pilot on the list - how 'bout it Jack - any opinions? Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:40:52 EDT From: RBHoltKayak Subject: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) I just read somewhere (sorry, don't remember which manufaturer's web site) that red is not a good color because 20% of males have red color-vision deficiency. For the same reason, greens and some blues should be avoided. While I doubt any SAR pilots/spotters have color-blindness, that powerboater speeding toward you may very well be color-blind. Graphics that have large repeating patterns are helpful (as in the Coast Guard red bow-slash), but varied patterns can act as camouflage: as the British effectively used to their advantage during the Battle of the North Atlantic with their "dazzle" paint schemes. Robb (still trying to decide on yum-yum yellow or omigod orange)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:56:54 -0700 From: ralph diaz Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) Dazzle paint schemes, or broken plane and jaggered silohuette, date back to WWI. I believe they were discovered by Picasso. :-) ralph diaz - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:58:41 -0600 From: "Shawn W. Baker" Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers If you can convince the owner of said boat to cover that brightwork! Mark wrote: >As for painting on colors, I would think it would be an >easy matter on....wood boats
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:58:48 -0400 From: John Fereira Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) I've also heard that red is not a good color because in low light it looks black which ends up looking like the rest of the water surface as it gets dark.
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:01:58 -0800 From: "Seng, Dave" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers) I find that both when paddling a kayak or "driving" my skiff that the first thing I usually notice about distant kayaker(s) is the motion of the paddle. Because of this I requested bright yellow blades, rather than the standard (white?) on my Lightning Ultralight (so far the theory works and I haven't been run over). Prismatic reflective tape might help also, but I think would be of marginal utility here where sunny days are the exception rather than the norm. I've always thought that hull color might be important in a rescue/lost at sea scenario re:visibility, but that during normal paddling it would play the secondary role in visibility - the primary being played the paddle..... Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:18:13 -0700 From: Melissa Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers Jack Fu wrote: My Caribou has a yellow deck, red trim, and a white hull (red PFD). When I first got it, a friend remarked that it looked like a floating warning sign. Precisely. As for the white hull... I suppose if that were the exposed side (inverted), I too would be a part of the cresting foam and whitecaps confusion. Been there done that and will do it again. ;-) Melissa
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:33:17 -0400 From: Bill Leonhardt Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) I thought the Coast Guard bow slash was orange. I guess I fall into the 20%. Bill Leonhardt
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:45:22 EDT From: JCMARTIN Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) Bill thought the slash was orange --- so did I. Checked. Here's the gouge. "The design consists of a wide red bar to the right of a narrow blue bar, both canted at 64 degrees with the Coast Guard emblem superimposed. It was originally recommended in 1964 by the industrial design firm of Raymond Loewy/William Snaith, Incorporated and was adopted service-wide on 6 April 1967." JCM
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:02:43 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers Hi, I was out on a evening paddle yesterday evening, and at one point I had a group of kayakers ahead who rented boats from a local outfitter. I could see them from a distance of >1 km, mainly because they had white paddle blades (rhythmic white flashes). At that point I counted 4 paddlers. A bit later while catching up I could still count 4 paddlers, wearing red pfd's. At that point I still couldn't see their boats. Some time later there were suddenly 5 paddlers on the water. The previoulsy invisible guy was using a paddle with dark blue or black blades and wore a dark blue pdf. At that point I could also tell the color of their boats. I guess I was ~500m away. Conclusions: As long as you are in your boat the color/contrast of your pfd and your paddle blades is the most important part -at least from the viewpoint of small vessels (these are the ones most likely to run you over). One kayaker I know has one of these bicycle flag poles mounted on his rear deck. This thing is ~2m long, with a little orange flag attached. He, or better his pole/flag is visible form quite a distance, and the moving little flag catches the attention first. Speculation: If you are in the water the color of your pfd becomes less important, since your upper body is mostly submerged. A strobelight and/or a contrasting paddle for signalling is than more important. For the boat color the contrast to the water is more important than color. Light bright color usually provide more contrast to the mostly dark water. In moving water with whitecaps etc. is becomes harder to spot a small boat anyway. Visual distress signals like strobe light, flash light, or flares/smoke signals are probably the only measures in this situation to make yourself more visible! I use right now a yellow pfd. I choose it because red becomes gray if the guy in the other boat is colorblind and all other colors (green, black, blue) were even worse for the purpose of visibility. I don't have a strobe light yet, but it is one of the items on my "soon to order list". My boat is painted with a red/yellow deck and a white hull. If I am going to refresh the paint job on the hull this winter (wooden boat and the paint gets worn off the bottom when you ride up the beaches) I will add a neon dayglow stripe (yellow or red) along the keel line to increase to aerial visibility of my upside down floating boat. My primary paddle is a Grey Owl wooden paddle. I hesitate a bit to give the blades a paintjob, but I think since the paddle is made from light colored wood it should be fairly visible anyway. My spare is a wooden Greenlander and I think I will give it a paintjob soon (black loom, bright yellow blades). The Atlantic up here looks pretty dark, almost black. In other parts of the world with light blue green waters (picture the tropical island) the whole color/contrast story might be different. If you paddle in the Arctic white color might be not a good idea at all, unless you are on a seal hunt. My two cents Ulli Dr. Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H4H7, Nova Scotia Canada http://is.dal.ca/~uhoeger
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:08:30 EDT From: JCMARTIN Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers Well, gee, Dave, I'm kind of a lurker here, slow to rise to bait, as you know, but, well --- yes, I suppose I could muster an opinion or two. Addressing several posts further down the list, I agree that paddles are a big factor. My Euro padldes --- on the rare occasion that I use Euro over Greenland --- have really obnoxious flourescent yellow blades. 'Cause I spray painted them that way. But they're bright! Dan Winters did a highly unscientific study once down in Hampton Roads, and painted various paddle blades various flourescent colors --- yellow, orange, green, and pink, may have been others --- sent a bunch of them in several boats on a hazy morning, and had an observer try to pull the kayak out by the color of the paddle. The paddle blades were always seen well before the kayak or the kayaker, and, as I recall, orange was the best. But yellow was right up there, and the observability of each color was very close to one another --- and always beat out the yellow or orange hull or deck by a lot. So I use flourescent yellow. Seems like the BCU or some other Anglo-authority sites orange and yellow as the colors of preference --- and may or may have mandated those colors for some level of participation --- can't remember specifics, but I do remember the colors. Which is why my Pintail is claret over dove grey. Oh, well --- it's pretty. Retroreflective tape is great --- if you're paddling at night and there is a light source close behind or in front of the observer of said tape. Get about ten degrees away from a light source, and the stuff disappears. But it's still, by far, the best thing to have on your boat and PFD at night. (During the day, it has virtually no value whatsoever.) There's an old Navy A-4 driver who owes his life to that stuff --- my first rescue in North Viet Nam --- 'cause he was also incredibly stupid, and had gotten rid of all his other survival gear. But we got a visual on a glint from our belly search light from the token reflective tape design on his hardhat, and were able to save his stupid derriere. Personal observation, and I think this will show up on most of the "expert opinion" data, too: international orange is the most visible conventional color, per se, on any conventional color list. But flourescent anything beats it. And now 3M has a flourescent yellow material they sell for crossing signs (Maryland has adopted it) that is also retroreflective! Cool stuff! That enough, Dave? Back to sleep. Jack
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:44:16 -0400 From: Rick Sylvia Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak colors for visibility I recently talked to a Coastie about this topic. He said that there are differences in the visibility of certain colors, but as a general rule - FORGET IT. The real impact is the color of your PFD or your paddle blades. The kayak has too low a profile, but the PFD is higher on the water, and the paddle blades provide movement to key off of. Makes sense to me - I always see fellow kayakers by their paddle movement long before I spot their kayak. Rick
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:22:02 -0700 From: "KEVIN M KENNEY" Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers & SAR As a current SAR pilot, I'll add my own two cents. The biggest thing that will get you noticed is the old "one of these things is not like the other" factor. Things that seem out of place get noticed. In other words, light blue would probably work well over a darker gray-green sea, but is very difficult to see in shallower waters such as off the coast of Pensacola (I speak from experience on this one). I recommend a couple of things- Mostly common sense- First, don't rely on just one signalling device. If you do it will be ineffective or broken when you need it most. Figure out what kind of paddling you'll be doing, then gear up accordingly. A light blue or green boat in the Bahamas will be much less likely to be seen than on Lake Superior. Strobes are of NO value during the day. Second, know how to use your gear! Practice when safe so you can do it when you need to. Lighting off flares, tuning VHF radios, etc. can be challenging when you are shocky, cold, wet, etc. Third, keep it simple. VHF radios are great, flares are good, etc, but in reality one of the best signalling devices (during the day) is a simple $3 plastic mirror available at lots of places. I've seen the flash from these as far as 15 miles on a decent day. I'll take a breath powered whistle over a compressed air horn any day. At night a strobe can be seen for over 10 miles if the SAR pilots are using NVG's (which we all do), but even a flashlight waved vigorously is very easy to see at night. Color wise I still don't think you can beat International Orange. Almost nothing on the water is naturally that color. I have the blades of my paddle spray painted this color for just this reason Lastly, don't lose hope if a SAR platform passes you by and doesn't see you. Most of our patterns have us revisiting an area numerous times to increase the Pd (probability of detection). If we miss you on the first pass, think about what you can do next time to make yourself more visible. It could be something as simple as splashing vigorously when we get nearer. In calm seas this is actually a pretty good technique. Regards, Kevin
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:34:18 PDT From: "Kevin Stevens" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visability of kayakers If there's a question about the top colors or you want white for evening/night and orange/neon green for day, there's nothing to stop you from painting the blades different colors... KeS
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:12:36 -0400 From: Michael Daly Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) As one of the color-blind males, let me add my two cents. Actually it's only 10% of men (and 1% of women) who are color blind. The most common form (6%) is red-green color blindness. This means that there is difficulty in distinguishing red from green. In my case, it means not being able to distinguish certain shades of red and green, with pastel colors being the most difficult. Lighting conditions affect the ability to distinguish as well. Sunlight is the only source that is reliable for me; artificial light means I can't rely on my color perception. Traffic lights are not a problem for me. Hence a red kayak on a green background (like water) would not stand out. I assume that the colors of the leaves in the autumn are less pronounced for me than for most folks. At the Georgian Bay SK Symposium, the White Squall staff mark the locations of on-water exercises by anchoring different colored canoes at different points around the bay. The furthest one was a red canoe. In the background was a marshy area with tall green grasses. Guess which canoe was the one for all the sessions I signed up for? From the dock, I couldn't see the red canoe at all. But neither could the instructor! He was also RG colorblind. The only time I was tested for color blindness for work was when I was hired by an airline. All critical staff (pilots, flight attendants, ground workers etc) cannot be color blind. I would expect various rules prevent an SAR pilot from being accepted if color blind. Those who are color blind and aware of it can make up for the deficiency in some respects. If judging color is critical, for example, I take something into sunlight. In general, I know when to be cautious about color. I like paddling with Amie, because she's not color blind and has razor sharp vision. Not bad for an old gal. I often ask her to confirm sightings of things. My own take on color, based on observing kayakers with visibility in mind, is that international orange is the best (as mentioned by Jack and Kevin). I have an orange PFD and recently bought a yellow one (that brand didn't come in international orange). Yellow is second best. Putting orange Scotchlite tape on the back of your paddle blades is probably a good idea. Mike PS The other dichromats are blue-green and red-blue deficiency. The monochromats see only one color and have even greater problems. It is a misconception that color blind people see black and white. PPS I dream in color - most men don't.
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:41:19 -0400 From: volinjo Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers I've been trying to find red reflective tape for a long time, but I haven't been able to find it. I've seen some boats with red and white striped reflective tape, but I don't know where to get it. What I'd like to do is cover the black tape along the gunwales with red reflective tape. Joan
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:11:26 -0700 From: "Matt Broze" Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers NEWTOT wrote: (SNIP) > There I was in the water waving my paddle frantically as bass boats zoomed > by at full speed to escape the storm - the wind and rain reduced visibility > more than I could ever imagine, as many boats came within 20 feet (no joke!!) > of me. I thought for sure I was going to be hit, even with my paddle waving > high. This went on for 15 minutes! (SNIP) > The beluga was yellow but partially submerged, my PFD was red and black. I > think blue was a bad color choice for the Squall. I think your PFD color is > every bit as important as your boat.<< (SNIP) The question I want to know is what color were your paddle blades. For visibility while paddling bright paddle blades waving around in the air attract attention way better than a bright boat or PFD. In your case you were even lower in the water and the PFD would also be mostly submerged. Next to your paddle blades a big bright hat would have probably been your best chance at being seen (especially if you took it off and waved it around). The Coast Guard says if you want to be spotted make yourself "bigger, brighter or different". Another way to make yourself bigger, brighter and different while in the water is to do a lot of splashing. I read something from the Coast Guard recently that said they like yellow first and a light bright blue next best. Different colors work better at different times. I'd choose Day-glo orange for fog but if it was getting dark I'd go for the light blue (it almost glows at night while red looks black). Of course Day-glo colors fade rather quickly and I'd also hate to have to look at it all day on my foredeck (at least until it fades). It should be easy to spray the paddle blades with bright colors if they aren't already bright. I wouldn't worry as much about the rest of your equipment. When searching rough seas from the air the coastguard does not like white, too much like whitecaps. Of course, by having an all yellow kayak, unless you notified the CG by radio or EPIRB you would probably only be helping them recover your body by the time a search got started. If you have the radio or EPIRB to get the search started they can also be used to help them find you. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:58:16 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) I believe that this camouflage did not actually 'mask' the vessel but actually made it difficult to determine where the sensitive or weaker parts of the ships were located to deter an accurate aim. > but varied patterns can act as camouflage: as the > British effectively used to their advantage during the Battle of the North > Atlantic with their "dazzle" paint schemes. > > Robb Gabriel L Romeu http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:52:17 -0400 From: Clark Bowlen Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of Kayakers Heard somewhere that the Canadian Coast Guard did a study on boat color visibility Can anybody confirm that? know the results? Clark Bowlen
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:44:44 EDT From: RBHolt Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) In a message dated 8/2/2000 10:23:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, romeug writes: > believe that this camouflage did not actually 'mask' the vessel but > actually made it difficult to determine where the sensitive or weaker > parts of the ships were located to deter an accurate aim. Haven't heard that one, but I really doubt it. Remember, this was not the Gulf War with computer guidance imagery (and even there the miss ratio was much higher than the public was originally lead to believe). The submariners of WWI and II had a hard enough time manuevering to get into position. They were lucky to get a decent shot off, much less try to "aim" for a vulnerable area of the ship. The dazzle paint scheme was developed in WWI, but put to very good use in WWII as just about the only defense against U-boats (until long range escort planes came into service later in the war, after which, the U-boat threat was virtually neutralized). Because there was no way to "mask" the ships like with traditional camouflage techniques, dazzle paint was developed as a way of fooling the visual sensory processes through breaking up solid images and playing with depth perception. From a distance the solid image of the ship would blend into the background of the sea. Here is a link with examples: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~drmiles/camouflage.html The starboard view at the bottom of the page is a good example of how dazzle paint plays with our perception of depth. Robb
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:08:19 +1000 From: "Whyte, David" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers & SAR A good cheap mirror is a discarded CD. A lot of places have software on them that is no longer needed and throw them out. They are robust, very reflective and have a hole in the middle for lining up. My CD burner on my PC makes useless CDs regularly though not intentionally. I work for the Australian Maritime Safety Authority which runs all the rescues in Australian waters. I went and spoke to the SAR people who have a huge background in search and rescue. The comments they made were. In Daylight nothing beats a well aimed mirror or heliograph and it dosn't need to be very big. At night a good strobe is best THe best overall colour is bright orange as this can be seen in nearly all weather conditions. They showed me a book that they give to observers which has some good pictures with tiny liftrafts etc in it, and the orange certainly stood out. Fluorescent dye put in the water shows up extremly well and lasts longer than flares. I took some on a recent expediton and found that a film canister full would make a huge stream They said that the above is still needed if you are carrying an EPRIB as they often us it for that final honing in on the subject David Australia
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:00:58 -0700 From: Melissa Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers What I would really like to see are gel coat colors with a reflective component mixed in as part of the coat itself. Is there anything like this? If it's possible, can it be done even with the more subtle colors as well? I'm thinking of this mainly for night paddling, so that when any light is brought upon the kayak, the entire boat will light up - yet in sunlight, look pretty normal. Just wondering. Melissa
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 03:40:27 -0400 From: "Reeves, Debbie Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers My old Sea Lion had the red and white reflective tape. Try contacting Perception for a lead or perhaps they would even sell you some. And let us know. Debs
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 08:10:58 -0400 From: John Fereira Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak colors for visibility At 04:44 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Rick Sylvia wrote: > I recently talked to a Coastie about this topic. He said that there are > differences in the visibility of certain colors, but as a general rule - > FORGET IT. The real impact is the color of your PFD or your paddle blades. > The kayak has too low a profile, but the PFD is higher on the water, and the > paddle blades provide movement to key off of. Makes sense to me - I always > see fellow kayakers by their paddle movement long before I spot their kayak. I think we're talking about two different visibility issues here. The first involves wearing a bright PFD and paddle blades so that you're visible to other boaters and they can avoid you. The other involves being visible by other boaters as well as aircraft so that you can be found. In the later case, a bright kayak would be an advantage as well.
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 08:39:02 -0400 From: John Fereira Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers & SAR > A good cheap mirror is a discarded CD. There is also a seemingly endless supply of AOL CD's. Thanks for the suggestion. I went to the "signaling devices" session at the AKT skills symposium last weekend and there was a lot of good information shared. Since PFD, paddle, and kayak colors were covered during the talk I thought it would be worth summarizing some of the topics. One of the most important points stressed was if signals are going to be used between paddlers communication of what those signals mean beforehand is very important. A anecdote was shared where on paddler could see a group of boats off a bit with they're paddles waving back and forth. The paddler sprinted towards them and when he finally caught up he discovered that they had a sheet of clear plastic between a their paddles and were trying to make a sail. They were unaware that the waving of the paddles back and forth was a common signal for "emergency". The mirror was one of the first things mentioned as a signaling device as was a bright white light. The battery operated head lamps were highly recommend (don't forget to carry extra batteries). Another dual purpose item that can be used for signaling was one of the bright orange bivy bags. There was a bit of joking about the instructions printed on the side of the bag and that it could be used as reading material while waiting for a rescue. The VHF radio was also highly recommended and several examples were related where it actually helped. Chris Duff had sucess with a VHF radio contacting a cruise ship after he broke his boat on a cobble beach in New Zealand. One of the important issues mentioned was just to use your head and be aware of the environment and conditions around you. There's not point in randomly shooting off flares if there isn't going to be anyone to see them. That also extended to carrying a weather radio (a VHF can double here) so that you're aware of pending weather conditions. The topic of flares was, uh, enlightening. A box of "skyblazer flares" was brought out and we were asked what we thought the success rate would be on the 3 flares in the package. Nigel Dennis responded that his experience that when the flares were within their expiration date range the sucess rate was less than 50% and went down signficantly after that. Parachute flares were highly recommend as were dyes. It was suggested that flares should be considered a last resort rescue device and should be carried in lieu of mirrors, lightts, etc.
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:48:08 -0700 From: ralph diaz Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers & SAR KEVIN M KENNEY wrote: > Color wise I still don't think you can beat International Orange. I can't remember if any one called that color by its full name: International RESCUE Orange. Early on when Canada was coming up with its current Maple Leaf flag instead of using the Navy Ensign flag (or whatever it was), I kidded my wife (she's from Alberta Canada) because the first one we were able to buy in a store was of a color just shy of Int'l Rescue Orange. I thought at the time "what a wonderful way to combine patriot's pride with safety savvy." ralph diaz - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:52:42 -0700 From: ralph diaz Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) Gabriel L Romeu wrote: > > I believe that this camouflage did not actually 'mask' the vessel but > actually made it difficult to determine where the sensitive or weaker > parts of the ships were located to deter an accurate aim. > > but varied patterns can act as camouflage: as the > > British effectively used to their advantage during the Battle of the North > > Atlantic with their "dazzle" paint schemes. > > > > Robb > > It broke up their silohuette and made it hard to determine the ship's size which meant the submarine lost perspective and would not know whether the target was 1,000 yards away or 3,000 yards away, complicating aiming and arming of the torpedo. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:36:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Olsen Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers > I've been trying to find red reflective tape for a long time] Try http://www.gemplers.com under safety products then reflective tape They have reflective tape in red, orange blue, green, yellow, silver(uses reflective prisms), white, and alternating white/red (as required by the US department of transportation for tractor trailers). kirk
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 08:11:52 -0700 From: Rob MacDonald Subject: [Paddlewise] Visiblility I recall watching a couple of canoes come into a beach on the Sechelt Inlet, decades before this became a well-known paddling area. We could see the flash of the paddles at least a mile away, maybe more. It was a moist, grey day, with just a bit of sun beginning to peek through, the boats were heading south towards us. I can't recall the colour of the boats, but the occupants were in rain gear, green ponchos as I recall. We couldn't figure out what was coming until they were about 200 yards away, but we could see the paddles flashing forever. Looked really strange. Same with bicycles. The best reflectors are the ones on the pedals, because they move. I think I will paint my paddle blades yellow - and glossy! Rob.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:28:30 -0500 From: NEWTOT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers Matt Broze wrote: "The question I want to know is what color were your paddle blades. For visibility while paddling bright paddle blades waving around in the air attract attention way better than a bright boat or PFD. " My paddle has very large white blades (Tradewind model I believe) - I still can't believe how close the boats came by. I might also add that this borrowed boat had no bulkheads or flotation, and my friend STILL paddles it that way (stupid stupid!) - hence making a self rescue impossible. Florescent blades or a strobe light would have helped. Visability wasn't on my mind on a warm sunny spring day. Stranger still, our situation was noticed from the top of the dam and the Lake Patrol was called. Conditions were so bad due to the large open area in front of the dam - big waves! The 20 foot bass boat that brought us in almost rolled over as well. The fishermen had been visiting that lake for 30 years and never saw anything like it. (neither had I!) Tim
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 11:36:44 -0400 From: Michael R Noyes Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers Melissa wrote: > > What I would really like to see are gel coat colors with a reflective > component mixed in as part of the coat itself. Is there anything > like this? If it's possible, can it be done even with the more > subtle colors as well? I'm thinking of this mainly for night > paddling, so that when any light is brought upon the kayak, the > entire boat will light up - yet in sunlight, look pretty normal. > > Just wondering. > > Melissa I have been wondering the same thing for a while now. Not just for kayaks but also for motorcycle helmets and such. I know that they can do "metal flake" finishes, why not reflective? Perhaps Matt can answer this one. As for the reflective tape, I have seen it in many auto parts stores, and all truck dealerships have it. I think I still have a roll or two from a project I did a bit back, reflective graphics on my snowmobile helmet. Mike (aghast at realizing that he just admitted to the group that he owns a "land based Jet Ski")
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:13:50 -0400 From: John Fereira Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers Last weekend one of the assistants to the BCU coaches (Fiona Fairity) at the AKT symposium was paddling a Anas Acuta that had an orange hull and a metal flake green deck. At first it looked pretty gaudy (if not festive) but it grew on me after awhile. I also overheard Gabriel's lovely wife, Rita, talking with Nigel Dennis about available colors for his NDK boats and Nigel mentioned that he could pretty much make one in any color she wished by supplying a sample and that it could be made using a couple of different metal flake add-ins. Waterski boats have been using metal flake in their gelcoat for many years.
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:10:28 -0400 From: Jeff Bingham Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Red is not good. (was: Visability of kayakers) In the past I have wrapped reflective tape around the paddle shaft near the base of the blade. At night, light is reflected in an double arc as the blades move through the air. Pretty cool thing to watch actually. You can also tape different patterns of tape-no tape-double tape (etc..) so that you can I.D. a particular paddle/paddler at night. Jeff.
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 17:01:09 -0400 From: Kenneth Cooperstein Subject: [Paddlewise] Reflective tape, flags A good source for colored retroreflective tape is http://www.galls.com/ ( Galls ) The black is really nifty on a black surface (good for black motorcycle helmets). Those with a patriotic bent can try: http://www.flashback.ca/products.html Ken Cooperstein
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 22:50:01 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility of kayakers I was at my local home improvement store this afternoon (Menard's) and noticed they had solid red reflective tape for about $1.89/roll. It was in the paint section near the duct tape. - -Bob Matter Hammond, Indiana
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 23:57:34 -0700 From: Doug Lloyd Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak colors for visibility John Fereira said: > I think we're talking about two different visibility issues here. The > first involves wearing a bright PFD and paddle blades so that you're > visible to other boaters and they can avoid you. The other involves > being visible by other boaters as well as aircraft so that you can be > found. In the later case, a bright kayak would be an advantage as well. Thank you John for pointing out two sides of the coin. I use a custom made yellow flag that rocks back and forth as one paddles, giving a visual clue to my presence on the water. Bright colored gear and boat help. As I paint my boat every few years, I've had a chance to play with various colors. I've found bright gloss yellow to be the most visible. (Paint stays much brighter than fading gelcoat). There are three yellows available from most kayak dealers: High Visibility Yellow, Canary Yellow, and Gold Yellow. These are not official names, but they give you an idea. The ubiquitous Gold Yellow shows up a lot on VCP and CD kayaks, and shows up nicely during the day. Canary Yellow is a good compromise, but one does not see it around much. Plastic yellow kayaks use this color. I chose the High Visibility Yellow, which is a light, bright yellow, and is readily visible at twilight - typical time for rescues - including my own incidents. I also like to have a strip of reflective tape that runs both sides of the kayak, so as to show the outline of the entire kayak and identify it as such. My wife took some shots of me in the late evening surf, using a flash at full. You can barely see the kayak itself, but the outline is clearly reflected and yields an amazing presence that draws the eyes to the reality of the vessel in the water. As far as flares, yeah, take some with you - the more the better, and the higher and the longer burning the better. But, on our Storm Island rescue, a hand held flare would have been nice for pinpoint location in rough seas. Paddlers seem to be under the false assumption the if you shoot of a flare, a rescue vessel will just race up to you at the exact spot where you fired from. And if you want to go on the cheap, one can substitute a large orange garden refuse bag, rather that a commercial one. They work well for a variety of uses during an emergency on land or in the water. They may make a good body bag, but I have not had the opportunity to test that peripheral use yet. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:57:52 -0500 From: Patrick Maun Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak colors for visibility Here is a tip for carrying emergency gear. I installed a knee-tube into my boat (PVC pipe simply siliconed in, with another smaller diameter tube next to it for a handhelp bilge pump). In addition to keeping my paddlefloat, and often a light paddle jacket, I have my "emergency canister". This is simple a Naglene bottle with some closed-cell foam siliconed around it to provide a snug fit in the tube. I have a cord running from the bottle to the front of the tube so it can be easily yanked out. I keep several flares, a smoke grenade, a signal mirror, some marine repair tape and a Cliff energy bar in the waterproof bottle. On a longer trip or crossing, I would also carry some of these items in my PFD, but this way, I always have this items in the boat and don't need to worry about remembering yet another thing from the ever growing list of junk to pack for trips. - -Patrick
From: "Peter Osman" Subject: [Paddlewise] Visibility Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 09:41:44 GMT G'day, I've followed the correspondence on visibility and most certainly don't want to decry the emphasis on selecting colours that can be easily seen. However, its my contention that no matter what their colour kayaks should be paddled as though they were invisible. They almost certainly are invisible to most other boat owners, even the responsible ones. With this in mind I should think one could generate quite a few rules of thumb for planning a safer paddle in crowded waters. I am concerned that the poor visibility kayakers present might give them a bad name in crowded waters. All the best, PeterO