From: Wayne Langmaid 
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:57:02 +1500

G'day -

Does anyone have any advice on using sea chutes with kayaks on long open
water crossings??

I am specifically looking for information on deployment and recovery;
stowage suggestions; length of attachment line; suggested size of the
chute for a single kayak loaded with expedition gear; suggested
materials; suggested floatation size, etc.

AND  Do's and Don'ts.

Thanks in advance

Wayne Langmaid



From: rdiaz
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:54:34 -0800

My only experience is with the Driftstopper made by Boulter of Earth. 
It is beautifully setup and well made.  I have not used it in long
crossings but experimented with it in strong winds that were trying to
send me backwards at a very fast clip.  The Driftstopper stops this on a
dime and pretty much keeps you in place with possibly a bit of backdrift
if the winds are real severe.

Dos and Donts:  I did everything stupid one can imagine with the thing. 
Would have made a wonderful movie!  For example, it has a small float
and I tried absentmindly one time to just throw the float out.  That, of
course, did nothing as you have to pull the drogue from its storage
sleeve on deck in front of you.  I have also in trying to recover it,
have come up on it too fast and had the drogue wrap itself around my bow
as it an octupus.  Things like that.  All of this is to say to practice
with such a piece of gear and don't let your mind wander.

ralph diaz
-- 



From: Brian Jones
Subject: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:45:10 -0500

I'd be interested in making a drogue or sea anchor myself.  Does anyone have
a pattern?  Can someone submit a diagram, materials list and/or dimensions
from one he or she might have?  



From: Jackie Fenton 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:51:01 -0800 (PST)


Besides being interested in this myself, if anyone has such a diagram for 
making a drogue, I would be glad to place it on the website I'm setting up 
for PaddleWise (where I will also be including the archive of the sponsons 
thread - good idea, Ralph).  I also might like to include a picture of
that kayak with both a rudder and skeg.  ???? 8-}

However, I think the cost of sea anchors (if I remember correctly) is
not in the extreme range. 

Cheers!

Jackie



From: Jim Champoux 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:10:18 +030

Theres a couple of pix at this site
http://www.biggideas.com/sea-anchor/html/sea-anchor.html

No plans; its a commercial site, but if one was a seamstron...

Jim Champoux



From: R. Walker
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:41:00 +0000


Mine was $20-$30...



From: Jackie Fenton 
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:52:19 -0800 (PST)

Cheaper than what I remember!  Not worth making one unless you 
just enjoy sewing.

Where was that?  Can you get it mail-order? 

Cheers

Jackie



From: R. Walker
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Chutes/Drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:30:43 +0000

> 
> Where was that?  Can you get it mail-order? 

I don't know about mail-order...  I got mine at Oshmans.  It
was just the chute, I did the rigging.   You might look at
Bass Proshops web page, saltwater fishercritters use them to
slow their boats drift while fishing.  Which is basically 
what I use mine for, in those situations where anchoring up
will make people mad, though it really does slow me down
to much.  I'll probably break down and add a little rigging
to reduce its drag a bit so that my drift rate will be
similar to other boats. 

Currently I run mine from an anchor cleat behind the cockpit,
but if I were rigging it for an open crossing, it'd have to
go forward, like Dowd's book illustrates.  Other posters 
indicated what a pain retrieval can be when its setup that
way though...



From: Julio MacWilliams
Subject: [Paddlewise] use of chutes and drogues
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:42:35 -0800 (PST

I just went through that page about anchor chutes and droges 
that someone forwarded to this list.

That page talks about the different uses of chutes and droges,
chutes are used to maintain position and to keep a boat facing
to the waves, while drogues are used to reduce speed and as
a steering device (??!!!!).

They even say that drogues have been used for a long time to 
steer boats, so... how do you do that?

Do you tie the drogue to the front to face to the wind, and 
to the stern to face downwind? Can you still paddle with that?

One of the problems of assisting or rescueing a partner in high
winds is that some boats become impossible to turn (mine was like
that until I added a retractable skeg). Maybe a drogue could solve
that problem, but its use does not look ovbious to me.

Does anyone have experience using a drogue to steer a boat?

Happy paddling,

- Julio



From: Keith Kaste
Subject: [Paddlewise] sea chutes revisited
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 10:43:52 -0800

Wayne Langmaid introduced this topic back on Feb 4.  I still have a few
questions.  I agree with Julio that the information on the web page
about sea chutes was a bit confusing and seemed to apply more to sail
boats.  The section in John Dowd's book on sea chutes does not go into
much detail, either.  I have a feeling that a sea chute would be a good
addition to my safety arsenal (after reading Deep Trouble I'm interested
in just about every safety device and skill known), but I'm not sure.

I have been out on the ocean in scary high seas.  Fortunately there was
a sheltered beach to land on.  But I know that's not always the case.
What if you're really tired and the wind and waves are forcing you into
a cliff?  Could you paddle directly into the waves say a half mile off
shore, set your sea chute and then using your rudder, or maybe your
paddle as a rudder, steer your kayak down the coast while you attempt to
scout out a suitable beach to land on?

We were taking 10 foot seas with gnarly white caps off the rear
quarter.  It was a lot of work but we weren't overly tired.  If we had
needed to I know we could have rested by pointing our bows into the
waves, but then we would have been heading away from shore.  My vision
of the sea chute would be that you would get out of the immediate danger
of the rocks near shore, set your chute, and drift slowly in a
controlled manner.  Your bow would still be pointed out to see, but you
would be stable, and you could look over your shoulder for a landing
site, possibly using the Steph Dutton technique of keeping the chute
deployed through the surf zone.

Is this what sea chutes can be used for?  Has anybody used one for
similar purposes?

Thanks,

Keith Kaste



From: Wayne Langmaid
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sea chutes revisited
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:22:33 +1500

G'day -

Keith points out another situation in which I am interested in having a
sea chute available, along side of having it for extended open water
expedition style paddling.  Not so much for having to use it on a
regular basis, but for those instances that it would be a good "ace up
the sleeve" so to speak.  I quite enjoy paddling in the conditions Keith
refers to (when we get them) but would like to have yet another "fall
back or back up" to the skills, preparation and equipment that I
normally paddle with.

I am really happy with the response so far - this list is showing good
form.  Thank you everyone.

I really would appreciate some more detail regarding drogues/sea chute
use along the lines that Ralph Diaz and others supplied.   An example of
details required:

1.    Just how long does the line between the kayak and the chute need
to be and what are the exceptions or rules?
2.    How long should the lines between the chute and the swivel be?
3.    Just what size of sea chute is sufficient - is there a size that
is too large?
4.    Just how strong would the attachment point need to be on the kayak
- is there a lot of heavy loading on that point?
5.    Would shock cord be effective to negate some of the effects of
that loading or yanking?

I'm trying to reduce the learning curve on this thing here.  I do
understand that once I have one that there will most definitely be the
need to sort out m own procedure for it - but I want to avoid having to
reinvent any part of the wheel again.


Regards
Wayne Langmaid
Australia