Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:24:47 -0500
From: (Chuck Holst)
Subject: [Paddlewise] Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

I acquired a lot of waypoints on my Garmin GPS 12XL in the
last year, including trips in Nipigon Bay and the Apostle
Islands, and I acquired not one but four programs for
downloading the data from the 12XL to my computer, but until
last night I had not found the time to put them together.
What prompted me to finally do so was losing all the data in
my 12XL last weekend. I had plugged the 12V power cable into
the 12XL but not into the cigarette lighter of my car and
left it that way for several hours. Apparently, when you do
that, it disconnects the internal backup battery. The next
time I turned it on, the 12XL gave me a message that all my
data had been lost. This included not just my waypoints, but
the time offset and other configuration elements. :-(

So, with another trip to the Apostles coming up, I decided to
reenter the waypoints for prominent geographic features in the
islands. For this I chose the Topo!GPS program, which has a CD
of USGS topographic maps of the Apostles. With the older version
of Topo!, I had found the waypoint coordinates by placing the
cursor at a waypoint location and writing down the coordinates,
which appeared at the bottom of the screen. I then manually
entered these coordinates and descriptions in the 12XL during
the drive to the Apostles -- a very tedious process.

The new GPS version makes it much easier. To create a waypoint
list, you just click on the map where you want to place a
waypoint. Next you type the name and a short description of the
waypoint in a dialog box. When the dialog box closes, the
waypoint is added to a list at the bottom of the screen. When
the list is finished, you connect your GPS unit to your
computer's serial port, turn it on, select "Interface" on the
Garmin, and then follow the instructions in the Upload Wizard
to copy the data to the GPS unit.

The waypoints are saved in files that are separate from the map
data files, so you can create a waypoint file for each trip if
you like. You can also merge files, and, of course, you can also
download waypoints, routes, and tracks from your GPS unit to
Topo!GPS and save them. You can do this whether or not they are
in the geographic area covered by the map.

The Apostle Islands are included in a CD set that covers Isle
Royale National Park, Voyageurs National Park, the Boundary
Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, the entire Minnesota shore of
Lake Superior, and the Twin Cities metro area. A waypoint file
that includes over 2000 BWCAW campsites can be downloaded from
the Topo! Web site at http://www.topo.com/boundary.shtml

Now to acquire maps and GPS programs for areas not covered by
Topo!...

Chuck Holst




Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:50:49 -0400
From: Bob Denton 
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

As a follow on, I have been using Fugawi, Delorme and Waypoint for many of
those tasks. Fugawi allows you to load any scanned map. I recently used it
on a commercial airline trip from Miami to Puerto Rico using a marine chart
of the area and had a fascinating time identifying all the nameless islands
I've seen so many times.

Will Topo work with any DGS?

cya



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:12:57 -0500
From: (Chuck Holst)
Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

I don't know whether you mean GPS receiver or DRG map. Topo! can upload   and download only to Garmin, Magellan, and Lowrance/Eagle GPS receivers.

As far as I know, Topo! uses a proprietary map format. Topo maps include   elevation data as well as scanned maps, so it can display elevation   profiles of routes. A searchable database of geographic names is also   included.

Chuck Holst  



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:57:44 EDT
From: VajraT
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] FW: Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

Does Topo work well in ocean-coast areas?  Is there a comparable system based 
more on NOAA marine charts, or is this even needed?



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:41:55 -0500
From: (Chuck Holst)
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] FW: Garmin 12XL & Topo

TOPO! maps are basically scanned USGS topo maps with extra capabilities,
so providing there is a TOPO! CD for the area you want to paddle, you
can use the TOPO! maps as you would any topo map for the area. (One
thing I failed to mention is that you can use TOPO! to print custom
maps.) West Marine and other marine supply companies sell digitized
charts and navigation programs based on marine charts rather than topo
maps.

The TOPO! Web site shows the area of coverage for each of its map CDs:
http://www.topo.com/.

Chuck Holst



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:46:37 EDT
From: VajraT
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] FW: Garmin 12XL & Topo

So, to the users of those digitized marine charts, my question is, do they 
have the same nifty features that TOPO! has, including the direct 
download/upload of waypoints with handheld GPS units, and the ability to 
print out custom paper charts?
Thanks, Jim



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:15:10 -0400
From: Bob Denton 
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] FW: Garmin 12XL & Topo

Fugawi will do all of the way point creation and uploading to a GPS but
using ANY scanned map.

cya



Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:04:18 -0400
From: "Clyde Sisler"
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] FW: Garmin 12XL & Topo

Jim,

The digitized charts are one product typically running about $180US and seem
to cover areas similar to the US BBA Chart areas.

I have the east coast of Newfoundland which in NDI format and, I guess,
copyrighted by the Canadian Government.  I guess rule # 1 is know the format
of the charts and the formats supported by the software.  The chart cds come
with a primitive viewer, no GPS or print options (at least mine did/didn't)

MapTech (www.maptech.com) seems to be the largest supplier of digitized
charts.  There are several (many?) suppliers of various types of navigation
software.  MapTech also does USGS Tops.

Standard disclaimer.

I have MapTech's Cruising Navigator which I think was $49.95US.  I spent
most of the first week working with tech support to learn you need the
current release to work with the Canadian charts.  I haven't had a lot of
time since then and have only managed to poke around a little.

It does have a ton of features, most of which I don't even understand.  It
does upload/download from the GPS, (dunno which ones but I could check) and
does have some print options.  You can layout routes and waypoints and move
them back and forth to the GPS.  There are all kinds of options for marking
up the chart and I assume, printing them out.

I think there is stuff hidden underneath that I haven't found yet that
provides some 'cruising guide' type information.

Their standard disclaimer is these charts are not to be used for navigation.

If you have any specific questions let me know and I'll try to ferret it
out.  I probably won't get a chance to play with this toy until I'm on my
way north.

Clyde Sisler
http://csisler.com



Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:48:31 -0500
From:  (Chuck Holst)
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

Another GPS program that uses scanned maps, as well as USGS DRG digitized   
maps, is OziExplorer. It is shareware, and registration is less than the
cost of Fugawi (US$65 vs. US$95). Also, it has some features that Fugawi
lacks, though at present Fugawi is the only one of the two that can load
BSB digitized marine charts. I downloaded OziExplorer yesterday and
installed it this morning. So far, I've just had a quick look at it,
but it looks pretty complete. I plan to use it for kayaking the Ontario
shore of Lake Superior, for which no digitized maps are commercially
available.

To download the shareware version of OziExplorer 3.70, go to
http://www.powerup.com.au/~lornew/oziexp.html.

For information about Fugawi, see http://www.fugawi.com/.

For a feature comparison between the two, see
http://joe.mehaffey.com/ozi-fug2.txt.

Chuck Holst



Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:00:48 -0500
From: (Chuck Holst)
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

Correction: Though the released version of OziExplorer cannot load BSB   marine charts, a beta version is available that can. See the OziExplorer   Web site.

Chuck Holst



Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:22:46 EDT
From: Vajral 
Subject: [Paddlewise] Useful GPS Intro

For those new to GPS, or interested in the technology behind it, here's a 
useful article:  

 Global 
Positioning System Overview
 

I was surprised by the section quoted below, which shows the non-degraded 
accuracy to be considerably less than the centimeters-level I have heard many 
claim.

Is there a scheduled date on which Selective Availability degradation will be 
ended, and will all small GPS receivers then attain greater accuracy?

Thanks, Jim



Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:43:00 -0500
From: (Chuck Holst)
Subject: [Paddlewise] Maps

I just found an excellent explanation of the UTM map grid
that might be useful for GPS owners and others:

http://maps.nrcan.gc.ca/basics/utm.html

Chuck Holst




Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:57:26 EDT
From: Tomckayak
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Download to Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

In a message dated 5/25/99 10:27:45 AM EST, CHUCK writes:

> an also merge files, and, of course, you can also
>  download waypoints, routes, and tracks from your GPS unit to
>  Topo!GPS and save them.

A track I downloaded from GPS 12 to TOPO GPS showed me paddling though a head 
land with a 50 foot cliff. I tried a different Datum and it made it worse. 
The whole track seemed to be off one way or the other. Is it the Garmin or 
the TOPO maps or the Government induced error factor. Would a Nautical Chart 
program be more accurate for on the water tracks?



Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:18:17 -0400
From: "Robert Woodard"
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Download to Garmin 12XL & Topo!GPS

Tom,

How far off is it? Within 100 meters or so? I download my tracks into
Delorme Street Atlas and sometimes they appear dead on, while other times I
paddle across land, and sometimes both.

Take a look at:

http://www.tidalwave.net/~woodardr/Tripndx.html

Choose trip #7 and then choose the Map. I don't think I really ever got
within 30 feet of shore all the way around the lake.

If you look at Trip #17 & #18, and then click on the 2 May Map you'll see a
track that came very close to matching our course.

One thing that may help a little is to set up your tracking function to only
mark your position every one or two minutes (a little less jitter). If you
need a more accurate fix, you'll need to invest in a DGPS reciever to feed
into the GPS.

If your computer can support it, you might try getting the DGPS program for
use across the interent and mark the position of your house. Load that
position in to TOPO and see how far off the Map is. I've been told that
Delorme Street Atlas is sometimes off by 150 feet! (can't remember where I
read that, so my memory could be playing tricks on me)

Woody