Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: juliom@cisco.com
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] expired flares

What do we do with the expired flares?

I tried to fire one last 4th of July.  
To avoid trouble with police and fire dept I chose to fire them
in what I thought it was a controlled environment--the bathtub. 

The thing must have bounce several times between walls and eventually 
found its way out of the shower and fell on the floor.  Everything
was black around me, and the only thing I could see was that bright
pink sparking thing on the floor.

I spend the rest of the weekend venting the smoke, cleaning up the
black good from the bathroom walls, and changing the floor vinyl.

Lesson learned: do not try this at home. ;-)
But in the experience I also learned that it would be extremely hard
to fire one of those aerial flares with cold hands in rough seas.

Anyway, does anyone know where to fire aerial flares without getting
in trouble?

- Julio




Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:25:13 -0800
From: David Seng 
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] expired flares

Great story Julio!  I promise, I was laughing _with_ you.
Up here in wild, woolly Alaska  we can get away with firing off expired
flares out over the water on July 4th; but is there really any reason (other
than boyish urges) to actually fire off old flares?  Wouldn't it be safer
and just as effective to simply soak them in a bucket of water until they're
rendered ineffective and then dispose of them through the appropriate agency
in your locale?  I'll bet that the HazMat collections that many communities
seem to have these days would also take in old flares and dispose of them
properly.

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska




Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:56:21 -0400
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] expired flares

Here in Canada, we can bring them to a fire department,
police station or Coast Guard station and they will 
take them off our hands.  Check with the same in your
area.

Mike

PS - if you want to fire them off to test or get rid of
them, you can do so by getting permission from the
Coast Guard and firing them at the time and place for
which permission was granted.  Since they have granted
the permission, they will know to ignore them.




Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:06:20 -0700
From: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] expired flares


When my son was stationed in Georgia he bought tons of fireworks, which
he left at our home when he got reassigned elsewhere.  I am not big on
fireworks and finally just took them into the local police precinct.  I
imagine the cops just took them to their homes in the suburbs and shot
them off on the 4th of July.
 
I can't remember if I told this story before but I will repeat it
anyway. Back about a half dozen years ago, I participated in a
pyrotechnics demo using old flares.  It was several boxes of out-of-date
ones that someone in one of our local paddling clubs had gotten from
commercial ships and other sources as he was in the business (selling
electronic equipment to the industry).  We had several thousand dollars
of expired flares to shoot off to our hearts content.

The event  was mentioned in club newsletters as a chance to shoot off
flares and learn more things about such gear and other safety devices. 
Our guy filled out an events permits application form with the Coast
Guard indicating where and when etc. and got an actual paper permit
back.

The day of the event we discussed various aspects of what we would do
and paddled out into Jamaica Bay off of Brooklyn.  Got about a mile from
shore, a nice safe distance to prevent any flares going astray and doing
any property or personal damage to anyone except possibly us.

We started shooting off different types of flares, including fairly
sizable parachute ones that generally are hard to have in a kayak.  And
smoke flares and dye and skyblazers, the works.  One guy had a marine
radio and suddenly got all excited saying that the air waves were going
crazy with reports of a major emergency situation in Jamaica Bay, with
all kinds of flares going off.  We were in the flight path of planes
going into JFK International Airport and apparently their pilots were
also reporting sighting of emergency signals, possibly of a plane down. 
Speculation was running wild.

A few minutes later, a Coast Guard Zodiac came roaring out to to the
"rescue" to where we were.  When they saw what we were doing, they were
ready to haul us off.  Our guy piped up that we had an events permit for
pyrotechnics.  Trouble is that the local Coast Guard station knew
nothing about this.  Our guy repeated that we had a permit.  They asked
to see it and it dawned on our guy that he didn't have it with him but
rather it was back at the clubhouse.  They took him aboard the Zodiac
while he left his kayak with us and they motored back to the place.  We
hung around about a half hour just floating around.  Meanwhile he got
the paper permit, showed it to them.  They hussled him back, he got into
his kayak and they said "Fire away!" while they remained on station with
us and alerted anyone reporting seeing flares and other emergency
signaling devices that it was okay.

It seems that a bureaucratic snafu accounted for the failure of those
issuing the permit to alert local units and the general public of what
was going to be going on at such and such a place at such and such a
time.

I think the lesson is that if you do arrange something like this, to
make certain to also call the Coast Guard the day before and also the
morning of the event to make certain no signals get crossed.

It was a blast though seeing just how ineffectual the skyblazers really
were, how well the parachute flares worked and how good smoke flares are
even in wind, which we had...about 10-15 knots.

ralph diaz

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------