PaddleWise Discussion on Tents

From: G. B.
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:32:32 -0800 (PST)

        My next piece of equipment is going to be a tent. I'm looking at the
REI Camp Hut, Half Dome, or they have a Kelty  Creekside 2 on sale. There's
a 4 person Camp Trails for cheap that is huge (96" X 96" X 57" height) and
not too heavy (9lbs). I can't decide whether to go for a larger tent (3 or 4
person for one person 95% of the time) or save some money and keep the cargo
weight down with a smaller two person. I'm assuming the better tents have
aluminum poles--or is that a weight thing? Because I'd be using it mostly
out of a boat, weight is not a big consideration.  The idea of having some
space to sit in out of the weather appeals. It might be nice to have a cot
in a tent with space to change clothes and then use the truck or kayak for
stowing food and gear. I've been known to camp without a boat. . . 

        Any chance this is as hot a topic as ballast? 

From: John Winters Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:34:08 -0500 Some tents that are recommend as being great by experts are not so great. I recall using a tent (Cannondale Aroostook I think was the model) highly recommended by Cliff Jacobson that was terrible. He claimed it was perfect for the arctic. It wasn't. In a heavy wind it was hard to set up, flapped horribly all the time, and seemed like it was trying to suffocate us. So far I have had the best luck with a Eureka Expedition. While various top line dome tents were being blown flat the Expedition stays upright and solid. It is simple to set up and ruggedly built. It is not as exotic as the fancy domes being the old wedge style with a center hoop but it works. Mind, if you aren't camping in exposed areas, I suppose most tents will work. Cheers John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft
From: Philip Wylie Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:50:51 -0700 George, Don't forget to ask if you want a four season, three season or just a summer tent. If you plan to do any winter camping a four season is desirable, otherwise a three season is fine. I have a Clip Silver Eldorado that weighs nine pounds but chucked the fiberglass poles after 150-Kilometers of backpacking convinced me aluminum poles are the way to go. Saved three pounds when I did. The three person tent is more than adequate for my needs, gear storage and all. Yes you can get a cot inside (and why not a little luxery is a nice thing) but can't be used if two people plan to use it. Therefore a four person is probably the way to go, especially if a person gets landlocked having to wait out bad weather conditions before being able to paddle again. You can always buy the aluminum poles later for such a time that you want to save weight. Best Regards, Philip
From: Mark Zen Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:08:25 -0700 (MST) george, i bought the 4man eureka timberline about 15 years ago. love it. a little heavy for solo back-packing, but reasonable. good aluminum poles [fiberglass break much easier ;-( !! worth the extra to have an extra large tent, almost always!! i also cook in my tent occasionally, due to bad weather, and the extra large tent helps quite a bit, you just have to make sure you have good ventilation, or this could be extremely hazardous. mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 [/ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@~~~~~~~@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@~~~~~~~~@~~~~~ [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] [personal --
From: rdiaz Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:30:16 -0800 Tents for kayaking are one of the dicier decisions one has to make. Ordinarily, any tent will do. But there are situations that are more likely to hit you as a sea kayak camper than a backwoods one in which you wished you had a bombproof tent. I wasn't on a particular trip back about 8 years ago but it proved my point. Several friends were sea kayak camping in an exposed open area when during the night a gale picked up. The people in normally adequate Eurekas and the like were awakened to the sound of snapping tent poles, collapsed or shredding tent walls, pegs popping, etc. A miserable night of hanging on until daybreak. As the day dawned, most of the group was contending with the wreckage, when over in one corner the occupants of a Northface VE-23 or 24 were awakening and opened their tent door to wonder what was all the commotion going on around camp at that moment. Their tent walls had hardly flapped throughout the night, certainly not enough to rouse them. The Northface had stayed put and totally intact. So sometimes top quality (we are talking about $500 tents!) pays. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." -----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chuck Holst Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:46:23 -0600 Because we frequently camp on shingle, rock, and sand, my wife and I would like a self-supporting tent that requires as few stakes for the fly as possible. We have a Eureka four-person Alpine Meadows that has lots of room, but we are dissatisfied with it because it is too big to fit into some spaces, takes up too much space in my kayak, and because the fly tends to sag against the inner tent when it rains. Our current favorite to buy is the Moss Triton, a three-person dome tent with a low profile, three equal-length poles for quick setup, a built-in vestibule, and two enormous windows on either side of the door for starry nights. We will probably also get a Moss "Wing" tarp for the kitchen area. Unfortunately, the tent is a bit pricey at $500, and we just missed a Galyan's sale that knocked $200 off the price. Sigh. We are waiting for another sale before we buy. I wouldn't put a cot into it or any other backpacking tent, however, for fear of what it might do to the floor. What's wrong with a Thermarest? A pet peeve when tent shopping: Why do so many tents have side entrances that force the innermost sleeper to crawl over the outermost sleeper when making a pit stop in the middle of the night? A side door automatically disqualifies a tent for us. Chuck Holst
From: Chuck Holst Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: FW: Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:34:00 -0600 >> Does anybody have the URL for the Moss Tents web site? >> Chuck Holst
From: BRADFORD R. CRAIN Subject: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:33:58 +0000 Does anyone have any good tent stories to tell? ********************************************************************** Bradford R. Crain Dept. of Mathematics Phone: (503) 725-3127 Portland State Univ. FAX: (503) 725-3661 P.O. Box 751 Portland, Or. 97207 **********************************************************************
From: Mark Zen Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:11:24 -0700 (MST) oh what fun ;-) last labor day [~1st weekend sept] i lead a trip for the RMCC through ruby & horsethief canyons, on the colorado/utah border [loam CO to westwater UT]. getting there was a story in itself... it's about a 7 hour drive to the put in, so a buddy of mine and i decide to take my old pickup truck there. we could have company on the trip, and take turns driving. on the flats, everything was fine. uphill, no problem, over 10,000 ft, the truck would barely run. we got about halfway there, andbasically the truck died. we got a tow truck to get us back to the top of the continental divide, and drop us off. we made it back to my house. we had left at 4pm, plenty of time... NOT!! we got back to my house at about 10pm, and put dave's boat on his car, mine on my car, and dave looked at the time, groaned, and cancelled out [had i not had the port-a-potty] and been the trip coordinator, i may have shagged out too... but i went on. now it was 11pm. i got to our club president's house about 5:30am, and decided i really could sleep for 30 minutes, as it was still a half hour to the put in. i set my alarm, and looked at all the baots in dennis yard, attached to cars with sleeping occupants... i woke up at 6:40am to a car door closing. we were all supposed to meet at the put in at 6:30!! i smiled, waved to everyone, and tore off, with a whole 60 minutes sleep... grabbed a fast-food breakfast, and went to the put in. a couple people wondered if i was going to show up, and a couple others said they saw us break down, but didn't know it was us!! dave's friends were there... unfortunately for them, none of us had every met them... they were guests of a friend. they said afterwards to me, that they did have a good time. so i unloaded the back of my car into the canoe. i was even awake enough to remember to leave that trash bag in the back, for after ther trip. we had a beautiful paddle, and got to the campsite pleasantly early, per plans [it's usually VERY hot there, that's why the early put in]. i took the opportunity to sleep. when i awoke, i unpacked [thanking the stars it was only a single night trip!!]. ok, you've waited fore the tent part... actually, that was what was missing. if you've ever assembled a eureka timberline, you know about those little plasitic joiners. i had left them in my car, in the bag of tent stakes that i had mistaken for trash!!! so i had no stakes or anyway to join the tent poles to each other 8-( bummer!! luckily, everyone else pitched in, and lent me lots of stakes, and a bunch of twine/cord. i quickly took three tent poles, and fashioned them into a teepee shape, and inserted it into one end of the tent [a 4 man i like to take for its room, and [mostly] free standing characteristics. with no frame it doesn't free stand at all ;-) soooo, using lots of cord, and most every stake i could borrow, i made my home for the night!! i'm scared to ask members of that trip if they got any pictures!! the only time that tent was ever collapsed by the wind, was at a campsite by a lake, that we drove to, so we suspended one end of the tent from the end of the boat hanging off the end of [another] truck!! that was also the only time we have ever decided, we loved the paddle, but the camping was so poor, we'd drive 5 hours each way, just to make it a day trip!! ah tents, so much fun!! mark ps. john, i'm surprised you didn't like the cannondale. i had a different model before i went into the navy, and it got stolen while i was in. by that time cannondale stopped making the tents, so i could never get it replaced, but it was by far and above the best tent i've ever had. it took me on a three month, 5,600 mile [9,333Km] bicycle ride around the country. oh, a short tent story, it was starting to rain as i rode into the public campground in florida, so the first thing i did was set up my tent. even in a wind, i could do it in about 2 minutes, tops. the [harley] bikers in the next campsite were so impressed, they wanted a closer look. i gave them a "tour" and in return, i got roasted chicken for dinner that night. free dinner, just for having a "cool" tent :-P yummy!!!! #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 [/ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@~~~~~~~@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@~~~~~~~~@~~~~~ [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] [personal]
From: Chuck Holst Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: FW: FW: Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:48:03 -0600 I forgot -- there is a review of the Moss Triton at Chuck Holst
From: Michael Edelman Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:42:33 -0500 I used a Eureka Caddis for many years, until a pack or crazed chipmunks chewed through it on one trip to get at some food we forgot about and left in the tent. (This is actually true.) I replaced it with a Marmot that has only had a brief shakedown trip, but which seems to be a pretty sturdy affair. I've seen lightweight, unguyed tents carwheeling across Lake Michigan in a storm so I always guy tents and I always buy solid tents. When I went shopping last time the point I put at the top of my list were (1) Polyester fly. Nylon weakens from UV in sunlight; I had a nylon tent literally *dissolve* around me near Fransonia Notch in 1976. (2) Taped seams. This is getting near-universal as more makers buy the machinery needed. (3) Aluminum poles. Bought a tent with glass poles *once* and soon gave it away. (4) Continuous pole sleeves. Some tents have these interrupted sleeves that make assembly a nightmare. Get a tent that has a combination of continuous sleeves and clips for where poles cross. (5) Long tents. It's amazing how few tents let a 6'2" guy stretch out! --mike ---------------------------------------- Michael J Edelman
From: R. Walker Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:59:25 +0000 We have the TNF Oval 24, like it quite a bit, never been concerned about the wind demolishing it; but it does eat up a lot of space. If folks are going alone, or with someone one doesn't want to share a tent with, a tough gore-tex bivy sack might work better. Takes up much less space, and is virtually indestructable. I got the big northface job inorder to get my wife to occassionally come with me!
From: outdoors Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:16:46 -0500 There are many things to consider when buying a tent and I'm sure others will fill you in on most of them. A few of my considerations: 1. Weight, because I also backpack so it's got to be light. 2. Quality, because it's used in a harsh environment and I want it to last. 3. A vestibule or separate dining fly, for cooking and sitting in the rain. 4. A net roof, for those clear nights so you can see the sky all night. Good luck. You can get hooked on this stuff, just like kayaks. I've accumulated 5 tents over the years. I think the best are North Face and Moss. Bill Ridlon Southern Maine Sea Kayaking Network
From: Philip Wylie Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:09:01 -0700 Well yes indeed. My brother several years ago took his wife on an extended canoe trip from Nitnak lake on Vancouver Island down the narrows to the mouth of the Pacific. Realizing that few daylight hours remained they beached there canoe at the mouth of the narrows, where today hikers higher a boat to take them across to complete their journey of the famed West Coast Trail. Hiking a fair distance South they found a place to camp and set up camp for the night. Apparently the bugs (no seeums) were plentiful and a constant source of irritation for his wife who was not apparently all that thrilled with the journey to begin with (citified I presume). Moreover, she was not thrilled having seen a whale pass nearby there canoe when paddling and it scared the bejeebers out of her. My brother was alarmed because the current was so strong that it was bending his wooden paddles, in effort to get the canoe beached. After having set the tent up and finished supper they prepared to bunk down to recover from a long day of paddling, and because it was starting to rain. The suprise of their life occurred. The tent started falling to pieces. Literaly! Mildew had invaded the fabric over the years (mostly due to poor storage I presume). His wife was just livid! Ho, ho, ho, did my brother ever get the blast. They spent some kind a rainy night under plastic garbage bags on Vancouvers coastline that night. Needless to say the canoe/camping excursion turned out to be a disaster. So much for canvas tents and his wifes willingness to go along with anyother such adventures. It pays to have a quality tent and to practice good storage. I am all for the consensus that Moss and/or Northface are the two premier tents. Oooh, I feel the need for a new tent coming on. Gonna truck on down to 'trac and trail' and check one out again. Cheers, Philip
From: Dave Kruger Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:59:57 -0800 A few from my long-ago days as a climber: 1. Watching a couple JanSport 2-man domes sail off over the Mazama Glacier into crevasses (sleeping bags and all) because no one anchored them -- thought the gear would keep 'em put! 2. Leaning up against an A-frame pole rig in a Trailwise 2-man half the night because the pole bent so much in 60 knot winds I was sure it would give (it didn't). Same night a client who was told to make sure EVERYTHING had a rock on it so it would not blow away put rocks on her *crampons!* Everything went sailing that night -- Thermarests, loose clothing, couple sleeping bags, but not the crampons! 3. Several flattened tents -- mostly domes, but one A-frame -- from high winds. 4. One tent fire, when one guy lit a Bluet stove at the entrance as another missed a cartridge change just inside the door and the spewed butane made a cloud of droplets. Only wasted the door and a down parka. No injuries, except to the pocketbook and someone's pride! 5. Washed my first decent tent -- first one I owned with a rain fly -- to the detriment of the early PU coating -- bye-bye waterproofness! 6. Couple times (once on a sea kayak trip) I forgot the tent poles! Not as bad as the time I forgot my sleeping bag! 7. One very "aromatic" night in a crowded 3-man tent after a healthy dinner of soybean-enriched spaghetti sauce. Olfactory sensors have not been the same since! 8. Brought my small one-man tent instead of the two-man, first (second?) time I went camping with my sweetie. Cozy, but must have been OK -- we are going on 6 years of togetherness -- take that, Dr. Ruth! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR
From: G. B. Subject: [Paddlewise] tent stories Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:54:17 -0800 (PST) > Does anyone have any good tent stories to tell? Here's one. . . You see what all you academics and draft dodgers missed by not being in the military? Alaksa again, we were experimenting with pitching hospital tents in freezing weather to see if we could manage the frozen canvas. An Army hospital tent (you've seen them on M.A.S.H.) is about 15' X 40' X 8' at the peak with side walls standing at 6'. The timbers that hold the whole affair upright are 4 by 4's with a 4 by 4 cross beam and some side supports about the same heft. Ropes for rigging are the sort that I'd almost trust for climbing. . . I'd be comfortable tying up a small ship with them. These tents get hauled around in a "deuce and a half" --a 2 1/2 ton capacity truck with twin axle duals on the rear drive. It takes about ten men to set up one of these tents. You use steel tent stakes that look like small car axles, and drive them with one of those "ring-the-bell" mallets you see at carnivals. The only tents I've seen that are bigger belong to P.T. Barnum. So. . . we set up this hospital tent out in the snow in Anchorage in mid-November in 10 degree F weather. Then we let it freeze up really hard. While we were waiting for the tent to freeze, a momma moose and her calf wandered into the warehouse area where the tent was pitched. If you've never seen a moose, they make a horse look really puny. They're about 6 or 7 feet tall at the shoulder and have a head on them about the size of a whitewater kayak--antlers extra. Anyway. . . ol' baby moose wandered into the tent to have a look around and momma got a little concerned. So then momma went into the tent to find her pride and joy whereupon the flaps closed behind her, leaving her in the deep dark void with only the sound and smell of her calf to guide her. So she did what every concerned momma moose does when she senses her calf is is harm's way. She charges. . . Momma managed to get most of the frozen tent wrapped around her which just pissed her off. She pulled the whole tent down and dragged it across the field where it was pitched. She also broke several of the tent pole beams. The frozen canvas, which is that bullet proof stuff that only the Army uses for tents, was brittle and stiff enough that it just sort of came apart on itself. Of course the guy ropes and stakes got tangled with her, trailed behind, and scared her into being even more pissed off. After about five minutes of unbridled destruction, momma finally got free of the tent. Somehow, junior never got tangled in the whole affair and was standing around making distressed moose calf noises through all this. Once the snow settled, momma and baby got back together and effortlessly pranced over the cylone fence that surrounded the warehouse area. The six foot cyclone fence. . . god forbid a cyclone fence should tangle with a momma moose! Some supervisory butts got chewed on that one. . . I saw the paperwork. (Then we broke out some frozen C rations, had a laugh and a bite to eat.) Geo.
From: rdiaz Subject: [Paddlewise] solo tents, etc. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:09:45 -0800 At one time when I would camp out of my kayak I carried everything plus the proverbial kitchen sink. But of late I am into the lightest camping possible. A couple of questions and some comments: --I have yet to find the ideal solo tent. To me "ideal" is under 3.5 lbs, freestanding _and_ bomb proof. The closest I have come to it is the Eureka Zephyr that meets the first two criteria with a real total weight of 3.55 lbs., free standing but it would not be up to real heavy winds. It is high enough inside for me to sit up to change in (I'm 6 ft tall). And it sets up in a jiffy. Price good too at around $120. It has a bit of purple color in it which is a downside since I like my tent not to be too visible because of commando camping needs. --I firmly believe in having some sort of tarp to hang out under. This is not only because of rain. Having a tarp over you at night while eating or hanging out, keeps you a lot warmer. I know that there is about a 15 degree difference when I step out from under a tarp into the night air. Again Eureka makes one that isn't is the vestibule for one its tents and comes with one 5 foot pole. It ia the Annex Parawing offering some 58 sq ft of coverage. I use it freestanding with my paddle and the provided pole or tie it off to trees. I noticed some discussion awhile back about tarp poles but no body mentioned using their paddle for a pole. When I do, I take the precaution of putting a piece of foam under the blade to prevent it getting chipped on the ground. BTW, a 4 piece takeapart paddle like those used for Feathercrafts (I've camped a lot out of the K-Light) gives you the option of a slightly shorter tarp pole...don't attach one of the blades. --Stoves. If you are only going to go for a week, I find that the butane ones work well enough. All I do is heat water, I never stew or really cook. I take freezedried camp food and boxed flavored couscous which I supplement with kiebasa and things like that. And I don't brew coffee which uses up fuel. I use folger's coffee bags. --My whole gear pile (not including my ordinary paddling stuff) weighs under 28 pounds, which includes all my clothes, cooking gear, food, etc. minus water. 28 pounds is an arbitrary limit. I read it in some tongue-in-cheek article in Sports Illustrated about 30 years ago about bring anything you want as long as you keep it under 28 pounds. Whatever makes you happy. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." -----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael J Edelman Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] solo tents, etc. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:57:44 -0600 rdiaz wrote: > --I firmly believe in having some sort of tarp to hang out under. I used to carry a coated nylon fly or a small blue poly tarp, which was cheap, rugged, and could be used as a groundcloth if needed but recently I bought a Moss-style fly from EMS. I use the fly not so much as a vestibule but as a kitchen and dining area outside the tent. > --Stoves. If you are only going to go for a week, I find that the > butane ones work well enough. Agreed. For many years I put up with a cranky Primus and then switched to a Camping Gaz. One can has enough capacity to morning coffee, dinner and tea for two people for a week if you're careful with it. -- Michael Edelman Telescope guide: Folding Kayaks: Airguns:
From: Bearss, Steve Subject: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:57:50 -0600 My two cents worth on tents: I have a Moss Stardome II. It is a four-season tent. I spent a little extra to get a four-season but when you need one you don't have to go back and get one. Moss is a little more expensive but you do get quality. You also get a little heavier tent, but what you are getting is material that is tougher and stitching that is better. These are things that you will notice during tornado storms and -30 degree nights. "Easton"-aluminum poles are a better grade than just aluminum. Manufacturers that offer them will label them as such. Another thing to think about: a four-season tent will offer a profile that will better withstand wind and weight(of snow) than a three-season tent. But you tall folks might not be too happy. Another two-cents worth: If you are not independently wealthy: Three items of outdoor gear that deserve all the money you can muster-a sleeping bag, a tent and boots(if you are a backpacker). Steve
From: Hal Levine Subject: re: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:32:06 -0800 I'll keep it short. We were on a canoe trip down the San Juan river. Our friends set up thier dome tent and them went for a swim. The wind came up and away it went. I can still see it rolling down the canyon bouncing over the "one way" rapids. We did find it the next day. BTW Eureka makes a durable tent!! -- Hal Wilton, NH Power your boat with carbohydrates, not hydrocarbons. 0 \_O \============\==============/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 0
From: Bearss, Steve Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:24:13 -0600 I don't have any real good 'no s---, there I was ' stories. I have had good, decent tents that have withstood everything needed, except for the occasional leaky floor. I do remember a morning on the Masai Mara in Kenya. My friend told me he could not sleep at night thinking of leopards in the area and how they(like most cats) like to walk on the highest thing around. Since the nearest tree was several hundred yards away, my buddy was thinking how strong his Eureka Timberline tent was and what a leopard would think of a warm, wiggly thing wrapped in nylon. Luckily the leopards were not adventurous that time. What I often remember are all the nights without a tent. When camping I think of a tent as the fall-back option. The wolves, loons and owls are so much more enjoyable without the nylon intervention.
From: Philip Wylie Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:31:19 -0700 Yah, you have created a problem for me. I did go out this weekend and looked at the North Face VE-25 expedition double wall tent. Need I say much more than I am hooked! What a marvelous tent! Now to attract the money to buy one. Man is it nice. 9 lbs 4oz, sleeps three, with 49inches of verticle sitting room and 84 inches horizontal floor area. Tested to what they report an unbelievable 200,000 cycles. It is a new double-vested design with stainless steel zippers and reported to be fantastically stable in high winds and resistant to snow loading and the stresses of expedition use. This is not much of a story but it could lead to many. Ouch,,,,,,,,, $725.00 Canadian Cheers, Philip
From: RICHARD CLARK CULPEPER Subject: [Paddlewise] tent tale Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:51:55 +0000 The wind was often quite strong, and occasionally a tiny but fierce thunder head would force us off the river. Surprisingly, we only had to don our rain gear a couple of times during the entire trip. For the most part, it was hot winds at our backs. Sometimes, though, this made setting camp interesting. One afternoon, just in time for the four o'clock blow, the tent just did not want to stay put. I laid it out to avoid the wind, staked it down, erected it, and watched it pretend it was a parachute. I started again. Laid it out, staked it down, set rocks over the stakes, erected it. Again a parachute. I started yet again. Laid it out, staked it down, set rocks over the stakes, tied it to the canoe, erected it. Darn thing pulled the canoe. One more time; this time with feeling. Laid it out, staked it down, set rocks over the stakes, binered and roped it to every boulder in sight, lowered the canoe into a small crevice, filled the canoe with rocks, tied it to the canoe, erected it. Success at last! It did not blow away! Unfortunately, it blew absolutely flat. Wind some, lose some. From "Kattawagami Untouched" at Richard Culpeper
From: Colin Calder Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] tents Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:44:55 +0000 I have a North Face MTN 24, smaller but with very similar construction to the VE-25, and generally I have found this to be a superb tent, particularly solid, stable and quiet in very high winds .... but there are a few niggles. When I bought this tent a couple of years ago, TNF did not tape seal the seams on either the fly or the ground sheet, instead supplying a (small!) tube of liquid sealant to apply to the seams. This is particularly necessary for the groundsheet, which is designed with a flat floor stitched at ground level to the bathtub sides (rather than a one piece floor/bathtub sides), so if there is no sealant, or if it comes off, the floor gets wet. The poles on my tent go through sleeves, which have possibly two design faults. Firstly where the poles cross the sleeves stop, so that each pole has to be fed through three short sleeves, which can be a fiddle in darkness/wild weather. I have used other tents (Terra Nova/Wild country Quasar, Hyperspace) which have one continuous sleeve for each pole, with one sleeve penetrating the other where the poles cross. Secondly, the sleeves are made of solid fabric, rather than mesh, which limits ventilation. I have found that this tent in wet conditions suffers from a lot more condensation than similar designs without mesh sleeves. Maybe the seams are now taped, and the ventilation problem is only apparent in cold wet climates :-(, but I would check out these features and consider them carefully before buying. Oh and another warning - I left my tent in a loose bag in storage for a couple of months and was appalled to find that mice (in this case Apodemus sylvaticus) have a taste for TNF flysheet material, which unfortunately temporarily improved the ventilation problem :-(~ HTH Cheers Colin ______________________________________________________ Dr Colin Calder Centre for CBL in Land Use and Environmental Sciences (CLUES) MacRobert Building, Aberdeen University, Aberdeen, AB24 5UA, UK, Scotland ______________________________________________________